Red Sunset Amnesia......using for flyline loop connection/nymph leader

[Walter1023]

Anyone here use this either for 1) nail knotting 7" to standard fly line to create a permanent loop in the line 2) making a leader and attaching standard mono tippet (I saw a post on another ff forum someone stating use 3 feet #20, 2 feet #15 pound - add tippet) as a nymph leader combo - and credited that formula to Davy ??? Also...I take it that a leader constructed from this material would not be conducive to dry fly fishing as the amnesia material would be more apt to sink?

[AaronJasper]

Walter,

That would be the standard formula. However, current speed, water depth, casting distance, and a host of other factors will determine whether or not you need to change the butt section. For indicator nymphing I would gather the butt section is stagnant and does not change. However, fishing by competitive means would require you to adjust the butt section. About the material sinking, if you coat it with muculin it floats great and can act as an indicator as Davy showed me.

[Walter1023]

Thanks Aaron......I guess in essence then it can also be a dry fly leader. I've never seen mucilin - but read posts about it before. my thoughts would be to spray or soak it in Scotch Guard.....this stuff is cheap (because its not made intentionally for flyfishing)...and i always use it to soak dryflies in before ever using them....it is after all advertised as a "heavy duty water repellent" and a silicone waterguard. I was just concerned the leader may not turn over as smooth...or alternately...even though i'd have 2-4 feet of clear tippet material ....the "red" color of the butt and mid sections could spook the fish.

[AaronJasper]

I was with a client today and had to use the 3 foot 20 pound red amnesia for a butt section. I tied 3X to it and tapered it to 5X. The client had very little trouble turning the flies over.

[Walter1023]

in that situation you describe....was that 3 foot section the only part of the leader that was amnesia? I mean - Instead of adding another 2 feet of #15 amnesia....I can just stick with the butt section and taper the rest of the leader down using varying tippet sizes? How did you connect the tippet to Amnesia....I was thinking perfection loops.

[AaronJasper]

In a pinch I just used 20 pound amnesia. To that I knotted 3x and ramped down to 5x. I could not believe how well it worked. His systems are very simple and effective.

[Davyfly]

Walter,

Here is my view on this, other may beg to differ. After some 48 plus years fly fishing, guiding clients around the world, fishing international fly fishing events I have come to this conclusion.

We no longer have to deal with making up tapered leaders systems with gut or inferior mono filament. We have materials out there to day that a greatly superior.
In the days of gut due to its relative short length leaders had to be formed with short sections of reduced diameter.
Then we had mono. In early times you could not rely on it, as you can today.
We also saw in the early days the introduction of furled leader and after which tapered leaders produced from mono filament.
No doubt a significant more forward.

If any thing it is my belief that the introduction of superior mono filaments is the no 1 major move forward with fly lines as a close second.


OK, l will never be convinced that leader systems that are made up of many different sections of reduced diameter line offer any advantage, in fact l will argue against those formulas. I was at one time very competitive also as a distance and accuracy caster, certainly we made tapered systems here for serious positive accuracy, which by and large are not required for 90% of the practical aspects of fly fishing, neither are 120ft casts with a 5 wt line.

A tapered leader is nothing more that a length of line with a reduced diameter through its length. The average leader has something in the region of a 4ft thick butt section that there after reduces to the termination be it, 3/4/5/6 x
Typically most trout fisherman would add a further section of tippet. Which adds as a rule a further 1 ft or more to the 9ft leader.
There are of course many exceptions here depending on the technique used.

By and large for the majority of fishing undertaken it is with nymphs, sometime dry's and emergers and so on.

So many years ago l dispensed with the use of tapered leaders. And made a permanent butt section of at that time Stren, moved over to Amnesia later.

To the fly line with a no knot connection is 3ft 20lb to that is added 2 ft of 15 lb, this is my base formula here. I may well take the added 2ft of 15 off, depending on what l am doing at that time fishing wise.

I add to the Amnesia my additional mono. I can come off of the Amnesia with 7 x if l chose to do so, All be it here l would reduce that say from 4 x down to 7.

Either way the connection is the same. You form a simple overhand knot in the AM, before you close this taught, place the mono to be added through the open overhand knot and then draw it taught.
Now above that knot tie the mono with your knot of choice, l use my own and draw that taught to the AM overhand knot.
Make sure both knots are snugged down.
It is of course not a option to add say 6 x to 15 lb with a surgeons knot, there is was too much difference diameter wise.

Regarding the issue of AM color spooking fish. In my book the issue here is down to how you make your presentation, it is the line movement that spooks fish on and off the water surface.
Color of the Amnesia in my years at this game is not a problem. In the case of very wary fish l would of course extend my overall leader added as here most times it is related to fish that are surface feeding.

Here again in many cases the issue of accuracy is more so related to casting skill, provided you do have some sense in the manner you have rigged you leader system up, and the weight of fly at the termination, as that is also a integral part of efficient turnover related to diameter of mono used.


Davy.

[alanb_ct]

Davy,

I remember you talking about the "no knot" connection before. I believe you employ the system conceived by your great friend Dave Whitlock. Mr. Whitlock talks about the system here:

http://flyfisherman.com/skills/dwnoknot/index1.html

Do you use the system with the zap-a-gap and roughened section of leader butt?

I used your leader knot on Sunday with the great fighting rainbows on the Housatonic. No leader failures - just a strong and smooth connection.

Thank you.

[Davyfly]

Alan,

Yes, Dave Whitlock connection, you must use Zap a Gap, other crazy glues may not be water resistant. Great to meet you.

Davy.

[Walter1023]

Thank you very much for your reply and input Davy. I have ordered some amnesia and can't wait to try your system out. If its anything close to my learning your Davy Knot last year....it will be another great convenience and simplification thanks to you.