March Brown and Gray Fox

rckrego · 04-18-2007, 12:53 PM

This is the thread from general fly fishing discussion

March Brown and Gray Fox
« on: April 10, 2007, 02:49:58 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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This was an interesting thread I read. Apparently they are the same fly in two color variations

http://www.paflyfish.com/modules/new...id=943&forum=5

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Well, Gary Lafontaine says...

Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 09:16:43 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Just checked out the link & read it. I've always found there to be a small but noticeable diff between the two- just like one of the replies in that link, the March Brown seems to average a #10 and be a little darker than the Gray Fox, which seems to normally be a # 12 or so. I'm a little fuzzy on the chronological order, but I wanna say the March Brown seems to hatch first, and then you see the Gray Fox. Seeing as they are genetically the same, I wonder if the difference is simply due to slightly different hatching times? I know other bugs are "multi-brooded", the same bug hatching at different times of the year, and they sometimes are smaller and different colored during later dates. Look at the Isonychia- the first heavy batch in June is usually a #10, sometimes even a #8. As you get toward late Summer, it's more like a #10-12, and then sometimes even a #14 and more olive in color as you get into October. What do you guys think?

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rckrego
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Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 11:55:12 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Interesting theory. Maybe its divergent evolution in the making. The grayer smaller bugs hatch later and mate later perpetuating a different life cylce and causing divergence within the same genetic pool. Would be interesting to fast forward to see what happens. Are browns and grays particularly hardy mayflies?

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Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 04:35:55 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Quote from: rckrego on April 12, 2007, 11:55:12 AM
Interesting theory. Maybe its divergent evolution in the making. The grayer smaller bugs hatch later and mate later perpetuating a different life cycle and causing divergence within the same genetic pool. Would be interesting to fast forward to see what happens. Are browns and grays particularly hardy mayflies?

There is a difference in appearance as there is in many mayflies that are of the same species.

These are not the only two BTW there are to many to count that have been re-classified due to DNA testing

Its actually simple if you think about it

If an alien where to take Humans and did DNA testing on us they would say hey they are the same species but look different!

FYI Variations in color are due to Mineral content and even nutrients within the river or stream..

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Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2007, 07:08:03 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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that is very correct i have seen baetis vagans in the spring that are completely different colors but are the same species. also, look at the pmd hatch out west on some rivers they can be yellow/green and on others thay can even be a pinkish color.

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Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2007, 07:36:01 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Quote from: AaronJasper on April 13, 2007, 07:08:03 PM
that is very correct i have seen baetis vagans in the spring that are completely different colors but are the same species. also, look at the pmd hatch out west on some rivers they can be yellow/green and on others thay can even be a pinkish color.

Out west the pmd are the cousins to our sulphurs (dorotheas)

The difference with the pmds is that there are two species that take that name..Inermis and Infreqeuns hence different variations in color...

Also as I sad there have been many taxonomic changes Vagans are now called Tricaudatus

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Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2007, 07:54:18 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Yoda, so true what you said about individual variations and relating it to humans- look how different trout from the same stream can look too. I does seem like the general trend with prolonged hatches is for the bug to get smaller in later broods, look at Iso's for example- they can be a #8-10 early in the season, and get down to a #12-14 by October. I think that males often tend to be smaller than females- correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

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Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2007, 08:16:30 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Quote from: Lymphmaster on April 13, 2007, 07:54:18 PM
Yoda, so true what you said about individual variations and relating it to humans- look how different trout from the same stream can look too. I does seem like the general trend with prolonged hatches is for the bug to get smaller in later broods, look at Iso's for example- they can be a #8-10 early in the season, and get down to a #12-14 by October. I think that males often tend to be smaller than females- correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

Yes I couldnt agree more Mayflies that are Multi brooded do get smaller in the 2nd and 3rd brood ( if there is one for that species)..
No to get complicated here but certain male species do tend to be smaller..

Iso ,pseudos>( various baetis), dorotheas are examples of mayflies that can have multi brood and do get smaller...

One note here multi broods are dependant on water temps ..In other words in a perfect situation certain Baetis species can have 4 broods!!

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Well, Gary Lafontaine says...

Re: March Brown and Gray Fox
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 08:20:17 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Pretty cool stuff, ain't it? If it were simple, it wouldn't be as much fun.

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