TFO Switch Rods now available

[Dave]

Has anyone tried/own any of these new Deer Creek Meiser Switch Rods? With all the recent talk and anticipation, I'm anxious to hear any reports.

FK, I know you're always interested in two-handed rods, do you have any reports/thoughts?

These rods, like all other TFO's, are very reasonably priced.

[FK]

The reports I have read are very positive on the TFO Deer Creek rods. I will purchase a 4wt as soon as they are shipped to the East Coast. I believe the lighter line weights will be very interesting for large streamers and nymphs.

Bob Meiser and Mike Kinney designed the tapers and have a name brand interest with TFO.

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/s...ad.php?t=30029


Regards,
FK

[Nymphmeister]

I spoke with the TFO rep today, and he is coming to HRO this Wed to show me the new stuff- I didn't even know they had a new series of 11' Switch rods from #4-9.

[Dave]

Great news Torrey, I look forward to hearing your evaluations.

BTW, have you any thoughts on two-handed or switch rods from Hardy?

[FK]

My big disapointment in the Hardy rods is "Made in Korea" with a $600.00 price tag for the 9ft rods.

The DH rods start at $1,700.00 and level out at $2,000.00,,,,, You could buy a used SUV for that amount.

TFO is a fraction of the cost and also Korean made.

I belive the Grays line is also distributed by Hardy USA and they are much less costly for a Far East sourced rod.

Regards.
FK

[AaronJasper]

FK,

Torrey and I had this discussion and I agree with you. What is the benefit of out sourcing it to Korea if the prices are the same. They are charging the same price as if it were made in the US or UK even though the labor is costing them a fraction of the price. If the price points were 100 - 150 dollars below Sage they would do very well.

[Nymphmeister]

Dave-
I don't know much about Hardy Switch or 2 Handed rods, but at the prices FK mentions, it's safe to say we won't be stocking them!

I'm hearing very good things about the TFO Switch rods, I'll see them tomorrow.

FK-
Just like USA made Sage rods cost close to double when purchased in the UK, Hardy stuff costs more in USA than over there, even when made in Korea. The quality & price of their classic reels such as the LRH Lightweight has is actually much improved now that they are made in Korea- the price dropped from $495 to $299, and it is definitely a better made product than when it was manufactured in England. The Hardy Marksman trout rods are mostly retailing in the $550-600 range, and while obviously more expensive than the TFO's, are also a much nicer rod, IMHO competing easily with top trout rods from USA makers (which mostly go for $650-800 nowadays). We were ready to be skeptical and not like the product line when the Hardy rep visited us a couple months ago, but boy were we pleasantly surprised when he showed us the goods. What I like about Hardy & Grays is the assortment of sizes & lengths that aren't so commonly produced by American makers, the Europeans have a much longer history of fishing with longer rods. The Grays Streamflex series has beautiful 10' #4 & #5 rods for only $300, much nicer than the TFO's- lighter, prettier, etc., and they come with a case. TFO does not make a 10' #4, Grays actually does it down to a #3! Ari T Hart designed the reel seat for the Grays G-Tec series, and you should see it, very innovative & inpressive. So I view the Hardy/Grays lineup of rods & reels in our fly shop as less of a competitor to similar products we already carry, and more of an addition that fills in holes that the major USA makers haven't filled. As far as the super expensive stuff in the Hardy lineup, you won't see that in our store. Sage will probably still be the rod of choice for the majority of our customers buying premium rods, but it's nice to have options and tackle that fills certain niches.

[FK]

Torrey,

I have seen the Ari T designed reel seat on the Greys rod,,,,, looks like a part that fell off of an aircraft landing gear,,,, very radical for Hardy/Greys.

The Greys 10ft 4wt is a nice lightweight rod and true that TFO rods are much heavier in the hand (swing weight) however, $300 vs. $195 for a nymph rod. The Echo 10ft rods are $170 also from Korea, I believe.

The made in Korea reels were necessary for Hardy to continue selling reels,,,, $500.00 US for a die cast aluminum reel ???? Now they are at $300 retail and should retail at $100-$150 due to actual manuf. cost for a die cast aluminum reel, an easy drop (LRH reel) to hard ground will distort the frame and jam up the reel.

Sage, T&T, Scott and Winston cost 2x in the UK due to protective tariffs and agressive distributors, I do not belive we have a similar import duty on UK made products into the states.

I believe the Hardy rods and reels will not be a success in the USA market at the MSRP established by Hardy USA. They do have nice posters,,,,,, my favorite is the bonefish fly on the butt. like to frame it for the fly tying room.

Regards
FK

[Nymphmeister]

FK-
My favorite Hardy poster has a girl on it.

The Lightweight Series from Hardy is machined, they started doing that even when it was still made in England- that was the beginning of the upward price spiral.

Not sure how Hardy will do in the USA, they just opened a distribution center in PA and are making a very aggressive push in the States. I'm sure some people won't buy Hardy due to the Korea thing, but they had no choice to be competitive pricewise in the USA. Hardy & other English products have always been significantly less expensive to purchase in the UK, from Wheatley boxes to Hardy Flyweight reels.

NAFTA opened the door to everything being made overseas with the much cheaper labor costs- good for the consumer, bad for American labor forces. Virtually near 100% of the flies sold nowadays in fly shops are tied overseas, Umpqua and most others are tied in Thailand & Sri Lanka. I would not wanna be an American commercial fly tyer trying to compete with that. And the quality of Umpqua flies is pretty darn high too.

A lot of the Chinese made products are crap from what I can see, and they are certainly ruining their country with all the pollution coming from manufacturing and the coal burning plants they are building at an alarming rate. Not sure what's gonna happen with all of this, but it won't be pretty.

All things being equal, I prefer to buy USA made products. But when I get a car, I'm gonna have it for a long time, and while the quality of all cars has gone up over the years, the Japanese still make the best in my opinion, and so I drive a Subaru, and owned several Accura's & Honda's before that. When it comes to fly rods, Sage is arguably making the best premium ones, but they aren't cheap at $650-800 in the trout weight- just sold a $795 9' #5 TCX to a customer here from Germany. Great rod, but pricey. But over there, it would cost him nearly 2x the price.

A Grays 10' Streamflex rod may be $100 more than the TFO, but it comes with a tube ($30 value or so), is lighter in hand, and has superior cosmetics. So of course it's going to be a little more than the TFO. But someone who wants a pretty rod who cannot afford a Sage Z-Axis would probably gladly pay $300 for one, esp. in the case of the 10' #4 where you would typically have to go to a premium series and pay $600 or more.

In a perfect world we would buy and use almost nothing but US made product, but our world is far from perfect, and the playing field in manufacturing is not a level one.

[FK]

I agree the Greys 10ft 4wt is a nicer rod than the TFO or ECHO design however, its cost to manuf. is very close to the lower priced rods. It will have a niche for the dedicated nymph FF.


I am not against products made overseas,,,, I am against the very low cost to manuf. in Asia then marketing the old well established name brands with very high pricing to the consumer. We live in an international economy and cannot manuf. many items in the USA due to very high insurance, taxes, medical coverage for employees, fuel and transportation costs. The third world countries have their own federal government supporting exports to USA and Europe with very low or no taxes for exported items, very low interest rates for companies expanding to support exports. It is much more than NAFTA,,, in fact when NAFTA was being discussed in the US, the Japanese were camped out in Mexico City and were ready to sign up if the US declined the arrangement. We have a tremendous export of high tech equipment and technology from the US to Mexico which the news media does not acknowledge. The Japanese would have exported billions of technology to Mexico and we would still have the cheap products in our market.

I will also most likely purchase my next car as an import (assembled in the USA) with the profits going to Japan. The USA corp. I work for has a company with an office that they own (9 story bldg) in down town Tokyo, we have owned this company and property for almost 40 years and get a significant amount of $ every year in income.

The estimates of GNP growth in China are claimed by many to be negated with the future costs of environmental polution and health issues. Very difficult situation,,,, many of our licensed builders sell our equipment into China and they must expand the energy capacity to power the machinery. Did you know the official government policy is clean air etc. but the local cities have such a demand that they disregard the federal rules and just build coal fired plants with no emission controls in place. It is esitmated each week, two new coal plants are fired up.

Makes you wonder if any of the local Asian people have the time or money to enjoy the FF equipment we import into the US and Europe?

Regards,
FK