Housy Stocking Paradigm Update

[alanb_ct]

This is so good from NymphMeister that I copied it from another thread for easier reference later.

The 0.2 fish an hour figure is from the April thru June period 2008 and they are doing the surveys straight thru the Fall. They did surveys 10 years ago and the catch rate was 0.7 fish per hour. They used to claim holdover rates of 38-40% for the Housy, but now in talking to them it's more like 10-20% in recent years.

I'm sure Natural Flow has changed the catch rates, and as you mention many people used to only fish the river at those moments of super-low shutdown flows (I believe they were in the neighborhood of @150cfs). Many locals have come up to me and said that they think Natural Flow has really hurt the fishing and they wish it was back to Pond & Release. Of course I'm sure that 3 years of completely screwy weather with 50 & 100 Year Floods, severe droughts, a growing population of bigger Smallmouth- these have nothing to do with that, right? But.... Natural Flow is here to stay, and the state needs to manage the river in relation to that. This one seems pretty simple:

Same amount of fish stocked + fishing for them in higher flows + lower holdover rates = less fish caught.

The solution? Stock more trout!!!

There are still holdover browns in the Housy, and some big ones too. But not in the numbers that they typically used to exist- in my estimation about 1/3 as many. This is probably due to multiple factors that I won't go into on this thread. This year marks the 3rd consective on uninterrupted data collection under Natural Flow, so after this you will probably see the DEP makes some changes in their management. More fish, some better sized ones, Rainbows in the mix, and maybe regular Fall stockings (instead of "as needed")- all of these are on the table and quite likely for '09. Talking to Bob Orciari, he speculated to me that the survival of the smaller browns they stock (6-8") in the Spring might be better if they put them in the Housy in October instead of late April- the metabolism of the bass is slowing down by then and they would be lest apt to eat the trout. In late April the water temps are cracking into the 50's and the bass are coming out of a semi-dormant state into a period of elevated metabolism & feeding. I support all of these stocking changes, we need more fish stocked, 9,000 trout (6,000 6-8", 3,000 9-12") is not enough for a 10 mile C&R section on a big river like the Housy with tons of feed & structure. Pre Catch & Release, the Housy was stocked with (depending upon who you talk to) somewhere between 22,000 and 30,000 ADULT trout, along with a good amount of broodstock fish, and there were rainbows too (and even some fake Goldens too, the Herons must have LOVED them). There were also private individuals buying & stocking big trout in the current TMA section, as well as HFFA putting hundreds of bigger fish in the river too (16-22"). Hmmm, wonder if stocking the river like that in the 60's & 70's might have helped the fishing.... DUHHH!!!

As far as the "human element", it is present on all creel surveys in all rivers, so that evens out across the board. 10 years ago the catch rate on the Housy was .7 fish per hour, a good figure. The Farmington is just over 1 fish per hour, which is considered a high catch rate. And as far as the scenario you mentioned where you get 8 in 2 hours and everyone else gets skunked, the state has to manage the fishery for all, not just those of us who know the Housy and it's subtle nuances (and not so subtle ones too!). Fisheries departments tend to manage fisheries and measure them by angler usage & angler satisfaction, because those are fairly easy measure to quantify. It doesn't even matter how many fish per mile the Housy holds over, it matters how many fish people are catching- if there are 100 per mile and anglers are catching 1 fish an hour, that's excellent. But if there are 2,000 fish per mile and folks are only getting one or two a day, that's horrible. Perception is reality, and fisheries managers need to manage a stocked fishery properly, responding to changes in conditions so that anglers of all ability levels can find success.

Having said all of this, the Housy trout had an easy Summer this year and the Spring stocked fish seem to have held over well and are spread out in pretty much all the pools- the fishing for them & the HRO stocked rainbows has been good to excellent overall of late and you need to get your ass down here and fish while the conditions are good. Lots of bugs, and plenty of fish rising at the end of the day- we are hammering them on Iso type dries (I believe that would be a Parachute Adams in Eddie Land?). The "hatchery rat's" fins have now healed up and they are brilliantly colored. The majority of the bigger (16" & up) fish are 'Bows, but there are still some nice browns in the mix- got a fat 16 incher last night, and missed an 18-20" one. Most of the browns are in the 9-13" range from the Spring. Bugs hatching include Iso's, Olives, Fall Sulfurs, Cahills/Summer Steno's, Black Caddis (tons), and a few Flying Ants have been seen. The last 3 weeks have been the dry fly fishing we should have gotten in the Spring but are finally getting now.

[Nymphmeister]

You know what's cool Alain? Despite a management paradigm that obviously needs to be updated, the Housy is producing good fishing now that the river has cooled down recently, even though the river is seriously understocked. However, we are nowhere near our full potential. I'm super curious & excited to see how good the Housy can be, because there is still much room for changes & improvements. Look what a good job the DEP has done managing and stocking the Farmington & Naugatuck Rivers and how good the fishing has been on both.

[SlowNDeep]

[quote author=Nymphmeister=topic=2023.msg14057#msg14057 date=1220381296]
But if there are 2,000 fish per mile and folks are only getting one or two a day, that's horrible. Perception is reality, and fisheries managers need to manage a stocked fishery properly, responding to changes in conditions so that anglers of all ability levels can find success.[/quote]

Wow, Trout welfare! Nevermind trying to improve as a fisherman, just ask the state to stock more because you're inept. I can't disagree more.

If some people are catching 3 fish per hour, then the river is a 3fish/hour river. If you're not catching what others can catch, then you ought to try and improve as a fisherman (IMO).

[jovalle]

Well...to come to nymphmeister's defense, the Housy is a unique river in that I'd guess catch rates have as much to do with where one fishes as their skill. Yes, reading water is a skill, but with natural flow and the high variability of water conditions year to year, spring stockings do not adequately maintain a consistent trout population throughout the "fishy" water in the length of the TMA. This is to say, in some years, a great fisherman (new to the Housy) can attack a long stretch of the river in the fall, and come away with a very low catch rate because of the high degree of migration to thermal refuges that occurs in the summer months. If the river is to be maintained as a trophy fishery for all holders of CT state license, as opposed to a handful of locals who know where the trout are holding, you need more fish stocked, and you need stockings to occur regularly through the year (provided temps can maintain the stockings). In contrast to the Farmington, which is really a question of skill as opposed to stumbling on a population of trout, the Housy reputation suffers because anglers may come to the river only a handful of times and come away empty handed because there are no trout in the run they are fishing as opposed to the skill of their technique. That's a big issue because the river is one of the most beautiful in the east (certainly relative to its proximity to major population centers), and given the biomass it produces, it could be an epic fishery as opposed to the province of locals, grumbling and disappointed city slickers, and poachers. Yes, a more productive fishery would result in less solitude, but more informed eyes on the river would ironically do more to reduce poaching and improve the business prospects of two fishing stores (along with local resturants etc).

[SlowNDeep]

[quote author=jovalle link=topic=2023.msg14079#msg14079 date=1220476354]
... the Housy reputation suffers because anglers may come to the river only a handful of times and come away empty handed because there are no trout in the run they are fishing as opposed to the skill of their technique....
[/quote]

I'll disagree, I see too many Farmington (and other) anglers come over to the Housy and come away empty handed from pools that I know hold many fish. I, and others often go into the same spots right after they leave and begin to catch fish.

I used to be one of the guys who would leave and watch some jerk walk in behind me and catch fish. Then, like Aaron pointed out in another thread, I would ask "what fly are you using", instead of "how are you fishing that fly"? After observing others who are skilled in the art, reading books, and asking lots of questions, I have become one who waits for the frustrated angler to leave, so I can go in and clean up - sometimes.

Housy holdovers do not need to be the opportunistic feeders that trout in the Farmington and small isolated streams do.

After a persistent heat wave with low flows and high water temperatures there may be several weeks in a row when the fish stay close to the refuge areas, sometimes into September, that is not the norm (IME).

[AaronJasper]

I will say one thing, I wish the Housatonic were in PA. I have fished Penns Creek a good number of times. It is a very similar river to the Housatonic. I can say with much certainty that there are large numbers of holdover trout in there. They stock over 100,000 5-6 inch trout over the course of about 10 miles. This large number of fingerlings accounts for the predation by birds and other fish. If CT was going to stock 100,000 fingerlings in the Housatonic I would be all for it. The nice holdover trout with beautiful fins would be plentiful. It's just a shame that so few fish are put in the river and it is entirely mis-manged. I am sure Slo would agree to that as well. It's just that many different opinions as far as size and numbers of fish are concerned.

[FK]

If CT stocked 100,000 fingerlings in the Hous. the Smallmouth, chubs, bluegills and pike would be very fat and happy.

I believe the PA streams and rivers do not have the numbers of predators to dine on the trout stockers that we have in the Housatonic.

Regards,
FK

[AaronJasper]

FK,

Penns has lots of smallmouth bass but the number of fish stocked allows for the predation.

The Allegheny below Kinzua damn has smallmouth bass, walleyes, northern pike, and GIANT tiger and normal strain Muskies. However 150,000 fingerling brown and rainbow trout are stocked. I fished there many summers because an ex girlfriends family was from the area. I had at least a 30 inch 10 pound plus trout on the line it broke the hook. In addition to that fish I caught quite a few between 16 and 21 inches there. Also, remember the large trout also predate on the fingerlings. So in comparison to the Housy there are far more predators lurking in the waters below Kinzua Dam. I saw some giant muskies while drifting the river.

The Clarion River also has large bass but 80,000 fingerlings are stocked over 8 miles.

The bottom line is to have a successful holdover fishery you need to stock tens of thousands of small trout, not 9,000.

[Nymphmeister]

Eddie/SloNDeep-

I find your viewpoint on this somewhat self-centered. The upper 5% of "expert" fishermen like yourself will be successful in many tougher fisheries where average anglers fail or do poorly. However, remember that the average guy accounts for probably 95% of the fishing pressure on the Housy, and if the fishing sucks for him he probably won't come back, or at least not often- he will go elsewhere to better managed fisheries. So we should manage a fishery to please 5% of the anglers, or should we manage it for everyone? They have just as much right to have a successful angling experience as you, the expert does. There is a word to add to your vocabulary- COMPROMISE.

There aren't enough fish stocked, I think we can all agree on that. We want more fish stocked not because fishermen don't know how to catch trout, but rather because the river is seriously understocked and way below it's carrying capacity and it's potential to produce higher quality fishing. Bump up the stocking of dinky 6-8" "rats" you like from the current # of 6,000 up to 30,000 to increase survival rates, but also bump up the # of 9-12" fish from 3,000 to 10,000 and give us a few thousand 14-16" ones too, and lets see how they all do and what rate each different size holds over at. Throw some rainbows in to the mix, and split the stocking between the Spring & Fall so all the eggs aren't in one basket. We won't know what happens until we try it. More fish in the Housy will equal higher catch rates for all, from novice to expert, and should also produce more of those big, beautiful holdovers we all love to see. Less fish stocked + lower holdover rates = less holdovers (the ones YOU love to catch, and the rest of us also).

Remember too that license sales from the 95% of apparently "inept" anglers also support this fishery. And if the fishing is good, those "inept" anglers also support our fly shop, the other fly shop, Baird's General Store, the gas station, the shops in Kent, local restaurants, local lodging, etc. Last I knew, fishermen constituted a significant amount of the people spending $ in the area. NU's study said there are 10 fishermen for every boater on the Housy. I'm sure in your opinion those "inept"anglers should all go to some easier, overstocked fishery. Remember this though, most guys don't have the time to perfect their angling skills and learn the Housy like you know it- if you only venture out 5-10 times a year, it's hard to get good. The Housy & Farmington are the 2 best trout streams in the state, and they both need to be managed to provide opportunities for all anglers, not just the "experts". If fishermen aren't fishing the Housy much, the DEP won't give it a proper stocking- it has to have enough usage to justify it, that is part of the reason why the Naugy, Salmon & Farmington are all so heavily stocked.

[FK]

Nymphmeister,

It is a double edged sword for many of us. The FF shops want more fishermen, that is how they make a living. The guides want more customers. The average wading weekend FF prefers less fisherman traffic.

I really like the success and easy fly fishing contributed by the Farmington, most FF would rather fish there and avoid the more difficult Hous. When the Farmington was marginal with small stockers, you could hardly find a spot to park on the Hous. The crowds were soo bad, I gave up for a few years and fished small ponds for LM bass on the weekends.

I also really appreciate and support HRO and the rainbow stocking program. Stocking of more and larger trout by the DEP would be great, if it does not bring the crowds back.

To me fly fishing the Hous. is a total experience, not just the size and numbers of trout.

Regards,
FK