Please Help My Tying Technique

[pmjasper]

It's apparent there are some good fishermen and fly tiers here and thus I thought I'd try to get some advice.

I recently started fly tying again after a number of years and was never that great at tying the smaller patterns. I did a lot of saltwater tying where I had lots of room to make successive thread wraps near the eye of the hook, making a secure and tightly-wrapped fly. This weekend I was looking over some of the nymphs I've tied in the last month and wasn't too impressed. I have a PT's, Prince Nymph's and some GRHE's and noticed a few things: First off, I try to weight my flies so that they will get down to the feeding zone of the fish, but I think the addition of lead might be the begining of my problem. I usually wrap the lead from about the hook point up towards the hook shank, leaving some room (approximately what would be equal to two more lead wraps) near the eye of the hook. I add my materials, from the bend of the hook to the eye, but it always seems that when I'm finishing the fly I either have to make a good number of thread wraps over each other to build up the head area, which sometimes want to unravel towards the eye of the hook or some of the material is left sticking out near the eye looking unsightly and sometimes causing problems with threading the fly on the leader. Before adding materials, my lead wrapped fly looks similar to a double tapered fly line, in the fact that I add tapered thread wraps behind the wire and tapered thread wraps in front of the wire, to take up the disproportionate space between the wire on the hook shank and the unwrapped shank at the bend of the hook and the eye of the hook. Now, I've thought maybe it's as simple as using a smaller gauge wire or just less wraps but I wasn't really sure.

My other problem, which is that when adding the hackle portion (legs near the thorax region) to a fly such as the pheasant tail, how does one get that uniform look on either side? I've tried cutting a "V" notch in the feather and lashing it down under the wing casing portion of the fly, but that didn't work too well for me, therefore, I usually just try to take a few fibers from the hackle and secure them on either size of the hook with a few thread wraps. Crude but it has seemed to work.

Lastly, what would you say is the best securing agent for the thread near the eye of the hook. There are some head cements out there that seem to leave a white residue over the thread wraps that ruin the appearance of the fly and don't really secure the thread that well.

I hope most can get the gist of my problems and give me some advice so I can start making better looking flies. Thank you.

[alanb_ct]

Crowding the head of a fly is a common mistake I used to make too, and still do sometimes. Leave yourself some more room in front of the lead, about 1/4 of the hook shank's length. Use a smaller diameter weighting wire, 0.015in is about perfect for a size 14. Taper your thread from the front and rear of the lead, build a little cone of thread that steps down from the lead to the shank.

Legs are always tricky. A.K. Best advocates tying in a small bunch on either side, as you are doing. I'm not sure strict uniformity is that important to the fish. Try using ostrich herl for legs too, easy.

I only use head cement on big streamers and slippery (GSP) thread. I don't think it's that necessary for most trout flies, if you execute a good 6 wrap (what I do, but not sure if this is always the correct amount) whip finish by hand with good tension on the thread. When you cut the thread, do so by "wiping" the thread against the edge of your scissor. This produces a cleaner cut and leaves a tiny bit of thread sticking out of the head (that you can't really see), thus making it less likely to fail. I am a strong advocate of whip finishing by hand; no other tool gives you the same feel or control.

A good book always helps. Look for a book about techniques, not just recipes. A.K. Best's Production Fly Tying is a good example, but there are many others in this forum. Do a search in the forum on "fly-tying books."

Torrey (Nymphmeister) at Housatonic River Outfitters (HRO) offers free tying classes from time to time on Saturday mornings. Attending one of these will fast-forward you up the learning curve like nothing else.

Hope this helps.

[john]

i had a similar type problem about 5 years ago. i grew up trout fishing in new england, started flyfishin at age 11 , and tying at age 12. i feel like i got pretty good at it too. at age 30 i moved south. i gave up my size 14 light cahills for bucktail jigs and bass poppers, moved again, this time to the salt. the jigs and poppers became trout candy, clousers and decievers. ive come full swing now, and get to trout fish for two weeks in june every year. i spend a lot of time tying for the next season. i had a difficult time with proportions and hook sizes after spending 25 years tying nothing on a hook smaller than a #4. im working with 20's now with no probems.

the only words of advice i can offer, is make sure your using the right style of hook for the type pattern your tying. mustad 3906 for wets, 3906b for nymphs, 9671 for stone flies, sometimes a 9672. try dividing the hook into halfs instead of thirds. a fly thats a little short looks better than one that is bunched up at the head. try tying a size 12 fly on a size ten hook. it will get you used to down sizing. when you sit down to tie, tie at least a dozen of the same pattern on the same size hook. when using lead wire to weight a fly dont use wire that is to much larger than the diameter of the hook wire. dont use two wraps of thread where one will do. and above all, tie, tie, tie.

[Nymphmeister]

Some good advice in the above comments. Sounds like you are trying to cram too much weight into your flies. Probably need to do like Alain suggested and leave more room ahead of and behind your lead wraps- I would leave at least 2 hook eye lengths clear up front, maybe even 3. If you are only leaving 2 leads wraps clear up front that's not enough. Try using a thinner lead too. If you really want to weight the shit out of your flies, use a tungsten bead- black if you are worried about stealth. It's heavier than lead, and you can also add some thinner lead to the body if you want to make it even heavier. Personally, I've mostly gotten away from weighting my flies heavily, and prefer to do most of that with split shot on my leader. Smaller and/or thinner patterns shouldn't have any lead wire tied into them, they will become too bulky & fat. Use split shot to get them down and/or a bead head.

[pmjasper]

Nymphmeister....believe me you are more of an expert than I am, but doesn't the addition of a split shot throw your cast off somewhat. What I mean to say is that, if you're weighting the leader, let's say 12 inches above the fly, you then seem to be casting the sinker instead of the fly. Any time I've ever added a splitshot to the leader it's led to a more jerky effect to my cast, which is why I've always preferred added weight to the fly instead of the leader.

Taking time to think about it yesterday, I do think that I add too many lead wraps and that the lead wire is too large for some of my flies. I'll have to go out and get some different diameters of lead and see if that changes the results.

[Nymphmeister]

For many people split shot does make casting harder. However, if you don't use shot you won't catch as many fish, trust me on that one. Use a Tension cast to just flip your rig back upstream after it swings down below you, or use an Oval/Belgian Cast if you have to do some real casting. That one consists of a 45 degree sidearm backcast, and then a normal overhead forward cast. It will smooth out the casting of weights, and almost completely eliminate tangles.

Any weight other than a beadhead will make smaller flies too bulky. Like I said, use tungsten beads on some of your flies. We all mostly use split shot to get our flies down, and it's much easier to fine tune your weight and get better drifts. Using the correct amount of weight will make or break your nymphing success. If you are fishing a pair of smaller flies in faster water, it's virtually impossible to weight them enough to get them down, unless you use a 3rd fly that is basically a sinker.

When I started nymphing many years ago, I used no split shot, only weighted nymphs. When I started using weight, my catch rate jumped way up. And when I got to the point where I could look at the water and usually guess the correct amount of weight for that spot, my catch rate went up some more.

[pmjasper]

Thanks Nymphmeister. I'll have to keep that in mind and give it a shot out on the water.

Since returning to flyfishing this fall, I've made six trips to the Big Flatbrook River in NJ and caught only one small chub. It's not that I can't catch trout, as I've done well across NJ with spinners, plugs and jigs but the delicate presentations and different methods associated with fly fishing has not worked for me thusfar. I'm sure that the information provided here will surely help out. Thanks again.

[pmjasper]

Hey Nymphmeister,

How do you fish glo bugs? I'm assuming since you don't prefer weighted flies that you add shot. Just curious. Thanks.

[Nymphmeister]

Glo-Bugs? Split shot, usually about 12-18" above the fly. I've tied them with beadheads for the Connetquot in Long Island- they don't allow weight added to your leader there. If water conditions aren't overly deep or fast, a beadhead on your fly may be enough to get you down without any shot at all. Other than for the Connetquot, my egg patterns are always unweighted and I use shot to get them down though- it's easy, versatile & effective.

[Dave]

I'm certainly no fly tying expert, but have learned to enjoy it immensely. Aaron has taught me a lot of productive patterns that are easy, and more importantly, fast to tie. Most of them under 2 minutes, and some even under a single minute.

Torrey (Nymphmeister) has given me invaluable info concerning tying too, and from what I've experienced with faster/productive patterns, THE LESS MATERIAL THE BETTER. I now usually try to error on the side of tying a "thinner" than a "fatter" one. It's SO EASY to try to cram a lot in, especially for nymphs in a medium/small size because of the possibilities available. I'm now finding myself tying flies that require no more than 3 (or so) different materials. For the more complex patterns that require different colored threads, several types of feathers, furs, etc., I'm now really, REALLY prudent about the amount of material. Even something like using the proper diameter/sz. copper ribbing can make a huge difference. So in general, I try to be very conservative with materials, especially for the tails and body thicknesses of my flies.