Soft hackle flies - Pearsall's Gossamer

[Brookie]

Have any of you guys tied with Pearsall's Gossamer silk thread for soft hackles wets? My understanding is that this tying silk has unique translucency that makes it optimal for this type of fly. Is it THE thread to get, or is there a substitute that works as well?

I mean, I know I can tie with Uni, or Spanflex or what have you, but I'm wondering if this thread's properties make it more effective for catching trout than a substitute.

Thanks

[Nymphmeister]

Davy Wotton would be the man to answer this one......

[Davyfly]

Way back when the majority of soft hackles were innovated Pearsalls was the thread used, available as Gossamer and Naples in many colors, pure silk. They also produced two ranges of floss, Marabou and Stout.
Pearsalls also became at that time the standard recognition in the fly tying world so far as thread color, after which the company of Messina and thereafter E. Veniard who complimented this with the standard ranges of dye shades used for material dyed, which at that time was natural fur and feather.
Both of which provided the fly tyers of the past with a reference of material of a given color.

OK, I do not buy the theory that Pearsalls thread has unique translucency, in fact l would say that many of the threads and flosses we have out there to day are way better.
Thread can provide only one or more of 3 options when used.
Color, reflected or transmitted effect, or its value as seen above or below water color wise.

The above is very much also related to what light source is available, and the visible effects of color separation below the water surface, which would include, color tone of that body of water, suspended matter in that body if water, depth that light source penetrates and so on.

Therefore, take two examples, snipe and purple and a partridge and orange, both of which used the original Pearsalls thread.
Neither of these colors are available to day unless you can obtain some of the original threads.
The modern equivalent thread of these two colors differs, mainly due to the dye ware that is to day used.

Would this matter ? Partridge and orange is a popular fly, more or less you will find that fly for sale tied with many different threads and flosses of different shades of orange, in some cases Partridge hackle is not used either.
As yet l have not seen that fly available tied with Pearsalls Gossamer thread from the major commercial sources.

In so far as trying to introduce the ultimate in translucency effects for a fly body.
J.W.Dunn, ( Sunshine and the dry fly) attempted to do just that. His flies were marketed by the Hardy co.
His theory was to paint the hook shank white and then over wind that with a floss called Cellulite, which was more or less the first synthetic floss, which is a very translucent material.
I have in my collection spools of that floss Mr Dunn owned.
It is very similar to what we know as acetate floss to day, all be it few persons use it.

To sum up here l would say this. By a wide margin we have to day material that is way better so far as the visible effects transmitted under given prevailing light sources.

Check out my Master midges, no Pearsalls thread would allow for that effect.
On the other hand there is certainly a place for many of the soft hackles of the past that call for a Pearsalls thread base, those of traditional value.
And in many cases fly patterns of the greats of that time who innovated them.

As a matter of interest here, check out the fly patterns of one Mr.Lunn a famous chalk stream river keeper. My favorite fly being the Lunns Particular, not a easy fly to tie either, even with the fine threads we have to day.

Tight lines guys.

Davy

[alanb_ct]

Thank you Davy for the illuminating post!

[Soft-hackle]

Hi,
I can not argue with the experience of Davy Wotton, and for sure light is a determining factor in how the fish experience the flies they see. I will say that James Leisenring in his book The Art Of Tying The Wet Fly suggested tying the Tups Indispensable using silk buttonhole twist as the abdomen. He dressed the fly so that no tying thread was wrapped beneath and he claimed that when the fly was wet, it exhibited a translucency that was very desirable.

I have also seen flies tied by Hans Weilenmann using Pearsall's Gossamer which, when wet become very translucent, so much so, you can see the hook shank through the silk.

The white shank used by Dunn reflects light back through the cellulose and a "Sunshine Oil" was applied to them to wet the material and help the white of the shank show through. I've seen this affect created with modern materials. A friend of mine wraps holographic tinsel under a modern floss body on some soft-hackles he ties. When wet, the reflected light shinning through makes the body appear translucent.

It's my experience that anything that can be used to make the fly appear more translucent will make a more effective wingless wet, whether it be the illusion of transparency or actual transparency of the material.

All we need to do now is create a transparent hook!

Mark

[Davyfly]

Mark, yes that has always been my way of thought, a transparent hook, whosoever comes up with that will become a millionaire over night.

You did raise one point that l did not get into and that was the effect if the hook visibility under a floss or thread body, which in many ways detracts from the desirable effects of a translucent fly body, all be it as we know many flies that incorporate this are very effective at given times.

So far as winding a under body of tinsels/flashabou type products, no doubt this does provide some desirable effects.
At some later point in time l will post some picture on the board that show visible effects of a flies underwater that incorporate bodies of this nature, and other materials l use for the same visible effects.

Mr. Dunns flies were of course more so related to dry flies and not subsurface flies such as soft hackles and nymphs, which once subjected to visible effects underwater change very much the perceived visible effects of how they are seen, at least to the human eye, which is no doubt one of the reasons that determines the trouts choice to take it or not.

In essence the only way you can incorporate a true effect of translucence is to have what ever material or tying configuration used as a detached component of the fly, such as the effects provided by seal fur dubbing, wing material and so on. Once a material is wound around a solid structure such as a metal hook, that changes the situation, as ligth cannot pass through it.

Take care

Davy.

[Fontinalis]

Actually there is much more too it then this. First we have to understand light and the numerous ways that it is greatly affected even before we talk about trying to make the fly more translucent. Visible light that most people see is really made up of the colors of the rainbow simply stated as ROY G BIV, Now let weather, clouds, dust particals and such affect the light and cause some of the colors of light to be attenuated or in some cases like a clear rain be amplified. Now you can see that light is vastly changed and all the issues that can affect it in the atmoshpere that we live it are enormous. Then light hits a stream. Extremely big issue here. You see the Angle of entry into the stream is affecting the light as well. This angle of entry changes as the sun rises and moves to high noon and heads west to set. This angle of entry will block the intensity of the light in some spots and in others fully absorb maximum intensity. Next the stream and clarity of the water and current conditions all play an extremely big amount in how the light is reflected, refracted, attenuated, amplified and even blocked. Now to those who really do not understand this you want to make a more translucent fly. Ever notice that in some conditions of the day the fly may kill and in other parts of the day or days with varied sun intesity the fly works or slows down to maybe not working at all. All that I just have mentioned is affecting the fly before we even talk about materials and undebodys and so on. Sure what you see by your eyes and a camera are closely adapted to humans eyes and what we see. But the question that was failed to be asked was since a Trouts eyes are designed way different then a Humans and has been adapted for a life under water, what does the Trout see far as color or lack there of or translucency. Now a white background or the use of holograpic material underneath materials may work under a condition or two but will fail under other light and stream conditions. Also I mention the current of the stream. The stream under fast condition will act as a fiber optic cable for light to travel thus not allowing certain colors of light to even hit the stream bottom say where a nymph may live or an emerger just hatching. The color will play a major affect on the Trouts eyes causing it to go after one color with shine over another. Also colors again on the stream condition will and can be absorbed so that yellow that worked this morning may nedd to be changed to green that works better in the afternoon. Ozzie Oberfich has taken numerous pictures of a Trouts environment and what we believe that a Trout see's. Ozzie is coming out with a new video this February with additional research that he has done. Ozzie still feels that we as humans do not know what Trout really see. I will be in contact with Ozzie in awhile to speak with him on light and reflection, Refraction. Radiant Indexes, Asorbtion/Attenuation, Amplicfication. You see to me the materials that we wrap around the hook shank needs to have properties of light reflection and refraction fibers impregnated into the material itself. Lastly take that fly that does work being more translucent, It will not work every day under variated light conditions, why is that, It's because that all materials will allow certain colors of light to pass through them while blocking others. Also the relflection back will be skewd as well dis-allowing a true relection with the same light intensity that was received. Now I am not in any way saying the white back ground or the tinsel will not work (I do believe they help) but needs to examined further. Inclosing when you think about all this, we never even taken into the cosideration of living organisms in the streams like Parameciums, Rotifers, Amebas and now a days algea and so on. All these living things affects light and also emits light that changes appearance of light to a trouts eye as well. Sorry for going on a long winded rant, but all that I has been mentioned does come into play. If we as humans could truly see undrwater through a Trouts eye, I really feel we would all be surprised. Also to know exactly what a Trout see in every stream and light and weather condition would be awesome. Then anglers would know how to catch a Trout any time of the day and when you finally think about it, what fun would that be. For me it would become boring because it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Soft-hackle]

Hi Fontinalis,
Your explanation of how light is affected by various things in the water is excellent. I totally agree that water clarity, depth, and other variables surely influence the light passing through water. This would surely also affect how the fish see the flies we present. A few things, however, must be noted. First, in order for the fish to see the fly at all, there certainly has to be a certain amount of light present. This light is refracted by the water and reflected by objects in the water. If there were no light at all, it would be difficult for the fish to see with their eyes. Of course fish also utilize their lateral lines to "see".

Light and the quality of it, as you have said, also affects not only our flies but the naturals as well, and any fly that can duplicate the action and appearance of the natural has a much better chance of taking fish. I would suspect that this holds true of flies that are or appear translucent (the tinsel under wrap or white painted hook shank surely assists in creating this illusion.) under the correct conditions.

I think it is generally agreed that flies that are constructed, for the most part, with more of the appropriate triggers exhibited by the natural will surely do better under all conditions. I believe that a translucent appearance in the body is, many times, an appropriate trigger. As you have pointed out, the conditions vary so much it is hard to determine exactly when this triggering attribute would be necessary, so I would say, build the trigger into the fly if you can and let the fish determine when it is appropriate, which I'm sure they do. Build in enough triggers, and you've got a good fly.

We definitely need to do more research in how fish see, however, till then we can only try to make things work for us.

Mark

[Davyfly]

There is no question of doubt that issues of available light source make a great deal of difference at times to fly choice and one that provides the trigger response.
Certainly my experiences fishing traditional wet fly ways on natural lakes and loughs proved that point all be it there is s big difference between Brown and Rainbow trout in these habitats as there is for the same species in moving water systems.

Take for example a fly by the name of a claret mallard. Michael Rogan of Donegal a very celebrated deceased innovator of traditional style wet flies dyed claret seals fur of different shades to suit primarily variables in available light sources on a given day of fishing, which were also related to time of the year and time of day.
There were dark clarets, fiery clarets, wine colored clarets, all be it the rest of the fly dressing was a tail of GP tippet, said body with a gold rib, a wing of bronze mallard and shades of hackle in the claret in some cases a blue jay throat hackle was added, claret jay.

I am of the view that regardless of what science may tell us about the biological make up of a trouts eye, there will never be a conclusion so far as how a fish does see a artificial fly or why it makes choices.
However l do accept as my years of personal experience have taught me that under given prevailing conditions the odds are a choice of a given range of flies will catch you fish. More so than others.

I would also argue that behavioural ways of both Brown and Rainbow trout also are a determining factor so far as how one makes the choice of fly, that certainly is the case so far as fishing natural lakes that contain wild fish and not stocked trout, particularly Browns. For l know for a fact that the wrong choice of flies used on that day will result in zero while others will catch you fish, and there is a relationship to prevailing light conditions at that time, no doubt of that in my mind.

I have fished very many tournaments and pleasure days on lakes when two anglers are fishing in the same boat, one guy is nailing fish on a particular choice of flies the other not a sniff. In the case of pleasure days the offering of he killer flies has provided the other with hooked fish, in the case of a competitor in the boat, good luck.



Fly fishing is very much based on experience of having both acquired skills and knowledge of the quarry we pursue at the end of the day, all be it l have a great interest in further knowledge and understanding of the quarry we pursue, if the information is related to wild fish and not stocked fish as there is a great difference, certainly so in the case of Rainbows that are by and large screwed up genetically in hatchery systems. unless there has been a good period of time that natural reproduction has taken place from the original stocks of hatchery fish.

There are of course many other issues related here such as a caddis emergence, at this time it is the hatch that very much brings about changes of feeding behaviour and at such times many different flies will likely catch you fish. On the other hand when no hatches take place and fish are more so confined to lower water feeding then that becomes a very different situation. The situation again may differ if say we were dealing with a mayfly emergence.

Each and every one differs in so far as the best overall angler approach and flies chosen, all be it we know that there are certain flies of a generic nature that will work 80% of the time given a particular water system.

If there is any subject matter that has held great interest to me over and above that l know, it is the inclusion of material that contains FL pigments, a very different subject matter which we can deal with at a later point in time here guys.

Off to bed now.

Davy.





So

[wayneb]

So, What do people use as a substitute for Pearsalls silk???


Wayneb