StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
Hi guys. I was looking through some books on stonefly nymph patterns and saw that most were tied in a larger sizes. Over this past fall and winter, I seined some stoneflies out of two local streams in NJ and besides getting the large giant black stoneflies, typically seen and tied in pattern books, I also captured what appeared to be smaller #16 and #14 golden stoneflies on the one stream and what appeared to be #20 black stoneflies on the other. I was just curious on how small you guys tie up your stonefly immitations and if there may be a reason for using the larger patterns versus the small. Thanks
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
the real small stone fly you found should be hatching in the near future ,and would be good in a size 20 nymph to fish now .Im trying to think of the name of the pattern it escapes me at the moment ,but it was a small bead head with black goose byot feathers with a red head,I like to fish that with a caddis nymph .it is only a good winter pattern till about febuary. at least it was for me .the golds i always tied in 14 an16 sometimes 12 .what streams where you on ?if you dont mind me asking the musky is full of those black stones
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
For little black stonefly nymphs I am a fan of the black Copper John in small sizes.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
im still home sick today so you gave me some homwork,i looked up the pattern iwas thinking of "it is called the north fork special ,winter 2003 issue of fly tyer" it has a silver bead head ,ten wraps of tungsten on a 14 size nymph hook two black goose biots for the tail ,black dubbed body,with red wire "thin" wrapped over the top segmented,to a dubbed and picked thorax,with three biots folded and layed on top of each other in a rowbut with a small amount of dubbing inbetween each wing wrapped off at the bead head .it is a killer for this time of year for black stones ,and the trout love them
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
The waters I sampled were the Big Flat Brook and a lesser known water called Wawayanda Creek. The #20 to #22 stoneflies (found in the creek) were so small, it was hard to determine the exact species, however, the distinct features of the stonefly could be seen. I found them mixed in with a few micro mayflies in the same size range. Since purusing the fly catalogs, I never see tiny stonefly imitations, probably because they can be mimicked with generic nymph patterns, but was wondering if anyone takes the time to tie a more distinct stonefly pattern in a smaller size.
The golden stones on the BFB I found were almost as abundant as the mayflies I found in the same location. Both the mayfly nymphs and the golden stones were common in the #16-#12 size, with more stoneflies being found my last trip out. Both nymphs (the mayflies and stones) look similar execpt for coloration and the stone seems to have longer antennae. I tied up a few small golden stonefly patterns over the weekend and hope to try them out in the near future.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
I make Golden Stones down to a size 14. Sometimes depending on how many small ones are doing "behavioral drift" on any given that might be your best pattern hands down. Sometimes the larger ones work very well. Most anglers forget that Stoneflies are a 3 year life cycle insect. This means that there are many different size Stonefly nymphs available to the trout.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
i guess you could be as creative as you want in small sizes ,i have a couple of scuds and micro shrimp in size 20&22 ,i think tying stone flys to small might be a real pain anyway,they have a bit to them .I like the copperjohn aswell because you can change the colors now with color wire .but i do like that north fork special you can find it by typing in north fork special fly and it shows what it looks like on ebay ,good luck pmjasper hope you have luck on the big flatbrook that is a beautiful river this time of year. I use to almost live in those woods out there.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
I tie Golden Stones from #6-#14, with #8-10 my most used sizes. It is not uncommon to find small Goldens in the #14-16 range when flipping rocks, and at moments they can be very effective. When water is high/dirty or it is near the emergence time, I fish the bigger sizes. Some of the other Stonefly species are pretty small, and you certainly could try to imitate them. Personally I've had much better luck using small Pheasant Tails & Hare's Ears to imitate them in the smallest sizes, and then you are also covering the base of imitating a smaller Mayfly at the same time.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
Thanks guys. I figured that a generic nymph might be a better imitation for the smaller stoneflies and mayflies but figured I'd ask anyway.
This winter I've tried to tie some of the smaller micro mayfly patterns and figured I'd add some smaller stoneflies as well. To date, I've probably had more fun on the BFB flipping over rocks and stirring up the bottom, seeing what insects abound in certain sections of rivers. The crawler mayfly nymphs and the golden stones look pretty similar in size and general shape, with tails, antenna and color differing. I'm trying my best to match the color of the golden stones I have seen recently. They appear to have a dark brown body, brownish gold motted wing cases and a pale yellow gray undeside. The ones I have tied look more like regular brown stoneflies than golden stones but I have more time to try and perfect a pattern. Then there are species such as the giant black stonefly that are very distinctive. I even managed to catch a crayfish which surprised me as well. Trying my best to tie up some patterns that imitate the insects I have found in the stream and that will help me catch a few trout. Thanks again all.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
PM,
Dont know if you saw the other thread; here is a link to a simple Golden Stone pattern
http://www.troutpredator.com/Aaron's...ldenStone2.htm
One of my best winter patterns in sizes 12 and 14
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
Thank you for the link. The stones that I am seeing are less golden and more a brownish hue, however, the pattern should work which varying the color a bit. Thank you.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
I call any stonefly with a darker back and a yellow underside a Golden Stone, although that's technically probably not correct. The "classic" Golden Stone nymph has a very distinct dark brown/black banding mixed with yellow on the back of the abdomen, a beautifully marked & mottled wingcase area, and then usually a pale yellow underside. I think the Latin family names for the various insect that make up the "true" Golden Stones would be Perlidae (Acroneuria & Perla) and Perlididae- look in Tom Ame's book "Hatch Guide for NE Trout Streams". Some of what I call Goldens have a dark back that is almost black, but again have a yellow underside. There is a "furry" looking one with a solid dark brown back and light yellow underside that I often see when I flip rocks, I think it might be called Peltoperla? The old classic chenille bodied black & yellow Montana Nymph looks a lot like some of the darker Eastern stoneflies. And if you switch the black chenille for brown, it would cover a bunch of other ones. Food for thought.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
There is a really cool Golden Stone pattern in the new Jan/Feb '08 American Angler in Ted Fauceglia's "Natural Reflections" column, on page 58. He uses gold wire inside of amber tubing to get the banded & segmented effect on the abdomen, and Bugskin for the thorax to get the mottled effect (I would personally substitute Thin Skin). He cleverly uses tan chenille for the thorax to create the effect of gills and eliminate having to dub it. I personally almost never bother to tie antennae on my Stoneflies- they don't work any better with them, and they get in the way when knotting the fly on. I snip them off commercial patterns before I tie them to my line.
I don't know if they changed the Latin name over the years (they often do), but a famous Golden Stone was the Perla Capitata, often abbreviated to simply Perla.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
This is a very interesting post with a lot of contributions. I've been tying stones only for the past two months. They've been a staple for the winter months, and a top producer.
Great to hear that the black Copper Johns can be used to imitate small stones. I never thought of that before, but when I think of it, it matches perfectly. And. . .they're already in my box, so it's even better.
Also glad to hear about the antennae not being an important component to the tie. I've had so many tangles, and knot problems because of them. The goose biots are thick, so that when a crease occurs in them, it appears rather unnatural to my eyes.
I've been experimenting lately with a lot of variation in the ribbing. I've gone from amber/ginger color wire, to copper, gold, and then to some more contrasting tones. V-rib is another material I've been trying. The Gauge of the rib seems to be of critical importance to the anatomy (segmentation) of the stone. Are thicker ribs usually better for the larger size (8-12) stones?
The river I've fished with the most astounding abundance of stones is the Millers River in MA. They are peppered all over the rocks, shoreline, and often you can see them on the stream bottom. They get absolutely huge there. What are the characteristics that provide a good environment for stones to thrive in?
It was interesting to hear that they endure a three year life cycle. Are the different stages of the cycle reflective of where they are found?
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
Has anyone ever tried Borger's Mono Stone Nymph? Looks deadly. Great imitation of a golden. Check out his book Designing Trout Flies. He says some stones are on a one year cycle, most are on a two year cycle, and some are on a three. For the larger nymphs he uses specific stonefly imitations, but for the smaller nymphs like the little blacks, he uses patterns more often associated with general mayfly imitations (hare's ear, or his hair leg nymph). He says that stones are very very poor swimmers despite their preference for fast moving water, and that while they may wiggle back and forth a bit in the current when they get dislodged from a rock, by and large they just drift straight with their legs extended hoping to bump into something they can latch onto.
I'd be curious to see a pattern that had some representation of those extended hairy legs. Probably too much effort to make it practical though.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
ok ,here is something to try ,instead of goose biot for the tail of the stone fly try two moose hairs ,then tie in the body black (with your choice of d rib, quill,whatever you like for a body now you need a few things ,ilike to take a hen pheasents back feather and dip it in laqure and then pull it straight with my finger .It makes a remarkable wing case when dryed .then at the body take a hackle and pull it out like youi would for a wooly bugger .now tie in the pheasent feather,with the steam right at the body ,so the feather is pointing toward the hook bend then do the same with hackel .then dub a body of black antron and black dubbing ,pull the feathers forward and tie in the head the nymph will have legs now pick out the antron to help give it some life .
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
[quote author=Rego link=topic=1163.msg7408#msg7408 date=1199457764]
... He says that stones are very very poor swimmers despite their preference for fast moving water, and that while they may wiggle back and forth a bit in the current when they get dislodged from a rock, by and large they just drift straight with their legs extended hoping to bump into something they can latch onto.
I'd be curious to see a pattern that had some representation of those extended hairy legs. Probably too much effort to make it practical though.
[/quote]
Ive see this in my tank, when I put stoneflies in the tank they wobble slightly, leaving their crooked legs perpendicular to their flattened thorax.
I used to tie imitations with 3 pairs of goose biot legs tied perpendicular. To imitate the pronounced bend (elbow), I would lightly heat a thin pair of tweezers and bend the biots using the heated tweezers. The flies worked, but not much better than the flies tied as in the FOTM. I still tie a few now and then just for fun.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
This link has some GREAT photos of yellow stones: http://www.troutnut.com/hatch/965/St...-Golden-Stones
I've noticed that many of them have pretty dark abdomens on the top and light yellow on the bottom, while others are definitely more mottled from the tip of the abdomen all the way through the wingcases. Maybe someone with a better knowledge of stonefly nymphs than I can discuss what kind we have here in the northeast; perhaps we have both.
I like using thin skin with a yellow/mottled pattern to add a shellback to my yellow stone nymphs. Also, the church window feather of a ringneck has very similar markings and I use that sometimes too. Then I sometimes think it doesn't really matter all that much and just go for a quick and dirty tie.
Thoughts?
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
One other question regarding the golden stones....if the majority of golden stonefly nymphs are brownish on top and yellowish on the bottom then why are some patterns tied with all yellow thread or all yellow dubbing?
I was sick this weekend so I didn't get much tying in but I've been tying my stoneflies with trilobal coat thread (black, brown and yellow) for the body and using a similar color dubbing for the thorax. I pick out some of the dubbing to give the appearance of legs and movement. The trilobal thread give a nice slick appearance to the body portion of the fly. I also used a rubberized type of craft bead string, similar to larval lace, for tail/antenna and they seem to look respectable. Hopefully the fish will think so as well.
Re: StoneFly Nymphs...How Small Do You Tie Them?
Brookie if you pick up a copy of Designing Trout Flies, you'll see that Borger, when he ties a mono stone, uses a marker to get the exact colors he wants. I think he uses different colors of mono too. but for a golden he colors the top of the abdomen abrownish olive and the belly a bit more subdued goldenrod type color. Plus you have the benefit of the BCS (borger color system).
