Wet fly wings

[Fascist Killer]

Davy-

I think we need to get you a dictaphone and a personal assistant. You could write an encyclopedia on this. I'd be interested to read a book by you on wets. Sort of a companion or counter to Nemes' soft-hackles book, that takes us through the history and then into how you fish them, but from the perspective of a Welshman steeped in the tradition of wets in the land where they were invented, rather than a guy who happened upon them as a teenager. Have you written one?

Regan

[Davyfly]

Regan,

I did in fact start to do that, and my dear friend Dave Whitlock was going to do the artwork, due to his move back to OK and all else, time has been a issue for him.

On the matter of the historical aspects of fly fishing and particularly wet fly, l either own or have read more or less every UK publication that was out there, and l do have a pretty good collection of books published here in the US, all be it in many cases the author has gleaned his information that was published in UK many years before.

How l view the historical aspects of wet fly patterns and related aspects of fishing those flies amounts to this.
Which l look at in four phases, to simplify that.
Bear in mind this also.

In the UK, and l include Ireland here. Wet fly evolution was very much related to in many cases the nature of the waters found in that area and the predominant species of insect So what took place in the North country where soft hackles and spiders were more so founded, differed from what was used for the natural lakes and loughs and main stream freestone river systems found elsewhere and the chalk streams of the south of England, Wales and Ireland.

Taking into consideration what took place in countries such as France and Spain that were also influential to some extent, all be it at a later date when the nature of what took place there become more aware of.

My four ways of thought are.

In so far as the actual fly patterns, what we do know is they differed very much related to region.

We then had the transitional period when those flies started to become more widely known throughout the UK and the USA. Through the means of publication, personal correspondence, anglers fishing different waters, and the availability of the fly patterns from commercial fly tying sources.

We then see differences taking place. Here in the USA much of the more traditional styles of UK wet fly were not popular, as in many cases they were species orientated. We then start to see a marked change in the manner of tying wet flies, much related to the colors and material used and the species fish for, while in the UK the historical way of thought continued, as it very much does to day.

Then we see the more modern concepts of what is considered a wet fly, much of this brought about due to the massive increase of fly tying interest, and further knowledge of how to catch trout with a fly, or any other species for that matter.
Certainly in the UK the huge interest and participation in competitive fishing which has existed for over 100 years most definitely within the past 40 years has changed things once again. By way of the fly patterns and the methods fished which 100 years ago did not take place.

One also has to consider further, that it was but a few persons who had works published, and in many respects that did not at that time convey what was taking place across the country. As here again often we see the author of the publication relate choice and style of flies for particular river systems.
Which was also some what related to availability of the materials to make those flies.
Further more, many who fished were not able either to obtain those publications or were not able to read.
In Wales for example Welsh was the written and spoken language. Very few other than Welsh would be able to understand what was written, and l would add here very much what they knew was kept a close guarded secret, at least the flies of worth.

Further to that we had those who help great differences. Halford and Skues being the best known. Each wrote publications that largely differed in thought and practice.

Wet fly fishing was common practice for these rivers systems. Until further understanding of the merits of producing fly patterns that imitated the stages of those insects, which in the case of chalk streams is very much related to mayfly and caddis. Here we saw a transition to ward the dry fly, which as we all know Mr.Halford took to extremes, others chose to think otherwise.
Halfords influence with Theodore Gordon was but short lived, all be it dry fly fishing had been practised here in the US before Gordons influence, which l would suggest was the main reason why dry fly fishing became more accepted here.

The further progress here in the US has its roots largely in the NW regions.

Halford for one was in my opinion was a very tunneled visioned individual, all be it he had his followers. I did not have the pleasure to meet Skues, but l knew a river keeper now long gone that did.
With respect to Skues, and l would have loved to have known and fished with him, he certainly became influenced by what others were doing, he saw the merits of soft hackles and wet flies that were species orientated for use on the chalkstreams and choose to follow his direction to that end.

We also saw the influence of others such as JW.Dunn, Baigent, Marryatt, Lunn, and the further influence of Sawyer and Kite, at least to ward fishing chalk streams. All be it l know the latter two fished many others river systems.

In the past wet flies were in the UK more or less were categorized as those used for lake and lough fishing, and those used for rivers, streams and brooks. The main difference being that many of the lakes flies were by definition attractors while those used for moving water were more imitators of species.

I have a great love for the latter, as tied correctly they are deadly flies to use, very unlike the multi color heavy set style of wet fly. You will not find such flies to day in the fly shop. And to the best of my knowledge there is no commercial source for those flies to day.

Last year whilst fishing the Lamar and the Firehole, l fished such flies with a friend of mine who has guided there for many years, l beat him hands down with my wet fly style emergers, while his dry/emergers were largely ignored. Which may well have been for three reasons. The trout has seen flies of that nature too many times. They were not the right flies, and they were not presented in a natural manner, all be it he is a good angler.

The only other reason l can draw a reasoning is that on that day there was a harsh wind blowing from all angles. Experience has taught me that at such times you fly or flies must fish well below the surface wave disturbance, at least in the case of a mayfly or midge emergence. Caddis does differ some.

I would add this further. Chalk streams such as the Test, Itchen and Kennet were fisheries that were stocked in the past, and still are. Anglers in the past harvested all fish caught. The natural reproduction of fish stocks was very much up and down due to predation of other species, pike being a serious culprit and now and again disease outbreaks, primarily furunculosis. Low water and high temperature years also contributed to mortality.

It was the employment of the river keeper to maintain a fishery that provided adequate sport for the gentry.

One further point l would add here is that historically both flies and methods of fishing were related to ward fishing for either wild or stocked brown trout in any water system. UK.
Rainbows, which were introduced into the UK in the late 1800s were very islolated to given waters, mainly lakes and man made resevoirs.
Even to day that is largely the case. They are not stocked into rivers and in many cases the natural lakes that retain wild Brown trout.

There is no doubt in my mind that this species brought about many changes that other wise would not have taken place, particulalry so far as stillwaters are concerned. Bows are easy cost effective to raise to large sizes compared to Browns. The subsequent stocking policies for put and take fisheries was responsible for the surge of interest to fly fishing since the 1960s. Brown trout would not have caused that to happen.
Browns and Bows, differ big time.

It is my belief also the same scenario took place here in America, take rainbow trout out of the equasion. How many would flyfish for the more difficult Brown trout, and accept many zero days. Would we see the numbers of fisheries we have here to do so

All for now, got to get back to the vice.

Davy.

[Fascist Killer]

Thanks for your insight. One question though, was that a freudian mispelling in "back to the vice"? hahaha. Is there a 12 step program for this nasty little habit?

[Nymphmeister]

Yes, I wonder what Mr. Freud would say about that, hmmm.....

[Fontinalis]

Davy:

Your input was very intersting and I really like your insight. You mentioned Theodore Gordon and it sent me off in a tangent and thus spawned a little more about this man and how it tied in Halford a little more. I need to digest your post awhile before commenting or asking questions. I am very glad to see you back.

Now please keep in mind that Theodore Gordon did grow up in trout country and fished many of the fine streams in Pennsylvania. Now Gordon is noted to have studied the American Angler’s book at age thirteen. Just a little back ground to show drive and a quest for knowledge.

Yes as you stated it is true that Gordon was influenced by Halford and Gordon read Halfords works. Gordon also dissected English flies tied by Holland to see how the wings were tyed on. Now Gordon did receive flies from R.B Marston and of course from Halford. Now the flies that Halford had sent to Gordon were more of the soft hackle type that floated well on those slower waters of English Chalk streams. Gordon knew that these flies would never really float well on the streams in the Catskills.

Also keep in mind that R.B. Marston also sent Gordon flies as well.

Interesting note is that Gordon tyed all his flies in his hands. It was noted that Gordon switched to a vise when he was somewhere around thirty-five or thirty-six.

Gordon knew that stiffer hackles were the way to go to make a dry fly float on the Catskill streams. Gordon was in a major search for just such a hackle. Gordon was extremely meticulous when it came to finding exact colors from hackles to imitate the insects that he encountered.

I can write a ton more on this man and the history that surrounds him, But keep in mind that the famed Quill Gordon appeared around 1903 and in 1912 Gordon written a chapter about it in an English book edited by Sir Herbert Maxwell, titled Fishing at Home and Abroad.

Now we see that Gordon invented or fathered the American dry fly. More realistically he was the creator of the Catskill Dry Fly. Now Gordon was a man who would never tye in front of any one. Only three privileged men were allowed to see Gordon tye and also be instructed on his tying techniques. These men were Steenrod, Rubin Cross and Herman Christian. When Gordon passed away the Catskill style could have died as well. It was Steenrod and Rubin Cross that kept this style going as well as advancing the style with a few new creations in Catskill Style.

Now keep in mind this story does get tied in with LaBranche and later the Darbee’s and Dettes. In modern times it’s the club I belong to The Catskill Fly Tyers Guild who keeps the tradition and history alive. Judy Darbee is our club secretary and last year I had the privilege of seeing Mary Dette tye flies the way her mom and dad did a long time ago.

Now to come back full circle, Gordon is the Father of American Dry fly fishing, but he was a long time wet fly fishermen.

I just though a very brief and quick history on Gordon might be a nice touch on the great post you left for us to read and see.

So with all the dry fly information, I believe to this day that a lot of people forgotten that Gordon was a very good wet fly fishermen that corresponded with some really brilliant men of the times and that he had more of a European influence that lead him to a style that he had to create due to the streams that he encountered and fished upon. I could write a book just on Gordon alone coupled with all the Catskill greats.


Sincerely
Andy

[Davyfly]

Andy,

Thanks so much for the further insight here. Has there been a publication related to Gordons life.

I for one have a great interest in the historical aspects of our sport and knowledge of those who had some merit in so far as how fly fishing evolved.
I find it also interesting why Gordon would not be more forthcoming with his fly tying skills, do you have any idea why that is so. Was he of the mind to be secretive about his ways or may be a shy man by nature.

I never did get to visit the Catskills as yet, all be it Poul invited me many times to come stay with him, which l do regret as he is no longer with us.

Davy.