Tip of floating line sinking

[Silver Creek]

I want to make four propositions in my argument as to why I don't believe a slightly sunken fly line tip is the reason a dry fly sinks.

My first proposition is that the water just subsurface is flowing almost exactly at the same rate and direction as the water on the surface. I believe there is a difference but it is minor. Unless the fly line tip is well below the surface, I think the movement of the fly line is very close to a line that is floating a few mms above.

The second proposition is that the sunken fly line tip is itself attached to the rest of the floating fly line behind it. To believe that the short section sunken fly line tip can move very differently than the floating line just behind it is simply not true. If there is any differential movement between this sunken tip section and the the floating line next to it, I believe it is very, very minor. The rest of the floating line dampens any difference between the floating and sunken section of line.

My third proposition is that for a sunken fly line tip to sink a dry fly, there must be drag on the leader and tippet, ie, there must be tension from the fly line tip transmitted through the leader and tippet to the the fly. Without this drag, the fly line, floating or not, cannot affect the fly.

My fourth proposition is proximity theory. I believe what is closer to the fly has a greater effect than what is more distant. I believe, when a fly starts to drag, it is not because the end of the fly line is the cause of the drag. Unless you are using an awfully short leader, the cause of drag is a section of the leader the is in the faster flow or slower flow closest to the fly. It is the leader that causes drag on the tippet which causes the fly to drag. So proximity theory states that before a fly can drag, the tippet must drag. Before the tippet can drag, the more proximal leader usually drags. Thus any "drag" of a sunken fly line tip must first work it's way through the proximal leader and the tippet before it can "cause" a fly to drag or sink.

The question then becomes: is the drag on the fly due to the sunken tip of the fly line OR is it due to insufficient slack in the leader and tippet to absorb the differential movement of fly line tip vs fly? I believe it is due to insufficient slack.

There are other situations that require that a floating tip. If you are using a floating tip as an indicator for a sunken nymph, you want the tip of the fly line to float. But for causing a dry fly to sink, which was the question posed, I believe there is little causal effect.

[wwelz]

I do not do much dry fly fishing. What aggravates me most when I do dry fly fish is when my the tip of my fly line sinks . I cannot get the fly off the water for a new cast without the sunken tip dragging the dry fly under water. The result is more time spent on drying the fly and applying floatant and desiccant. One of the reasons I love nymph fishing is I never have to mess with that stuff but I do spend time replacing flies and leaders lost on the bottom . Quid pro quo

[Silver Creek]

Have you tried the "C" Pickup?

The “C” Pickup

[Silver Creek]

"A real fast, small “C” will pop all the water right out of a dry fly; this makes a very good way to pick up a dry fly and recast without having to false cast to dry the fly. Practice large and slow, large and fast, small and slow, small and fast, “C’s,”and everything in between. This one is worth knowing."

[wwelz]

If the c is a modified roll cast pick up . I know how to do it . If it is something else I will check for a video. With the modified roll cast pickup the line underwater still drags the fly down. Thanks for the info

[Magnet]

Dr Henry K, you are awesome! However, let me pose to you a proposition regarding the relationship of the distal end of the tippet (fly) and the proximal end of the leader. If the tip of the line sinks, would it not impart a linear movement in the direction of the sunken line tip? Thus causing said fly to break the surface tension without apearing to the angler as drag?

[Davyfly]

Bob.
What is taking place on the surface may well differ from that below and a sunk fly line tip which drags the leader also under may due to that cause create issues regardless of how you choose to correct the line and its position of drift for you are not and it is impossible to have a direct tight line when dead drifting.
Here is a little test for you.
Take a 6ft section of mono and to it add a dry fly, now grease the mono and let it be free flow on the water, watch how subtle movements of the water surface allow for its freedom of movement.

Now add say 4ft of fly well greased up fly line to that set up and watch the difference. You have added weight and drag to the fly
Do same with a ungreased line that sinks at the tip and watch again, it will again be a different drift.

Which is one good reason why the lightest fly line you can get away with is a advantage in the case of surface or subsurface fished fly.

This year l am am going to shoot a new DVD related to midge fishing and in it l will show how some of these subtle differences will alter how your fly is seen to drift which in the case of small flies to light tippet can make a great deal of difference. There will also be underwater photography related. More to the point how you are able to deal with these problems that so many anglers face.

Davy.