Leader material tips please!

[tod]

Aaron I am from upstate NY I live in the finger lakes region on Keuka Lake between Rochester & Syracuse.

[caddisfly1]

I wish I could do a no knot connection! I would have it on all my rods. Where are you from? NJ?

The no-knot connection looks interesting. I have been using an in-line connection as well but with a nail knot. I got it from an old Lefty Kreh book. With larger butt material the no-knot would be easier... I agree, the larger dia. butts are hard to nail not without a big lump of mono at the end of the fly line!
mike

[caddisfly1]

Caddis,

Myself and quite a few others have been using Camou french leaders. They are excellent for long line Euro nymphing and no knots to deal with.
https://www.flyfishingpoint.net/#/homepage

Those look nice! Why the colored leader material? I understand the sighter portion being colored, but why the leader section... is this a preferred material or does it aid in following the flies? Those butts are huge (.0063)! They should turn over nice!
mike

[Davyfly]

If you do use a no knot connection make it policy to frequently cut off that being used and set up new, it is not reliable for long term use. iT cost me a few very large Browns in the past. Neither will it work well for all lines out there due to the type of inner core used.

Davy.

[frankm]

I really don't know about the color of the Camou and wht it is like that. What I do know is it is very subtle, and yes turns over flies beautifully all wit no knots. I especially like this feature in cold winter months where ice tends to gather around the knots. . If you'r eusing a straight sighter or coil you will trim approximately 10 feet off the tapered end and the diameter then should be close to meeting your 15 lb sighter material. This will leave you with approximately 20 ft of no knot leader to your sighter!!

[whheff]

Great advice Davey. I was thinking of doing this but another question keeps bugging me. Every time you do this you are cutting off a little more of your line. How much is to much? In other words when will the action of the line change, if any?
Thanks
Bill

[biloutback]

I like AJ's tip of attaching the leader butt with a clinch knot to the loop in the fly line; I make my own loop by double over the fly line 1 inch. whip it with tying thread and coat it with pliobond; if in a hurry use ca glue. I have experimented with gelspun braid material like 10-15# spider wire, power pro etc and make 2 nail knots when cinched up it will never slip or fatigue. If fishing hard and in SW surf have had weld loops in fly lines FAIL; i cut these off and make my own, with the welded loops i do not particularly like the way the fly gets a set or cut in it after u replace the leader butt several times.
for leader butt material I favor clear Ande Mono in SW, or hi vis Mono like stren or suffix for EURO Nymphing 20# to 15# to 12# to coiled sighter to tippet, my leaders are 12 to 10' long depending on where I'm fishing. Didn't mean to get on a rant on welded loops.
To recap loop in fly line, attach butt using simple 4-5 turn clinch knot, slips through guides easily, i use 5 turn blood knots to connect leader material together moistened with saliva, if in a hurry double surgeon knots, I connect my sighter using loop to loop connection via perfection or double surgeon loop what works best at the time and connect
tippet to loop in sighter either with a clinch knot or Davy knot.
This works for me!

[skeets]

I hate knots in leaders. I know I am an exception, and all the comp guys have their own formulas and swear by them, even Mr AJ. I agree I can get a better taper by making it myself, but the knots are a pain, and the taper section of an extrruded leader is sooo smooth.
does anyone use the standard extruded leaders as the starting point for their leaders? I've been messing around with Rio's this month, as I love the material they use for mono. I had some spare leaders, so thought I would see. The 12 and 15 footers have about 7feet of butt, with about 4-5 feet of taper. I clipped down the butt for the desired length, and then attached the sighter, added the usual tippet and flies. They seem to work pretty well, certainly effectively enough to place the cast on the spots I am aiming for and catch the fish. At very low cost, and almost zero prep time.
This is certainly not an original thought, so wondered if anyone else had experiences and what they found out.
craig

[AaronJasper]

Craig,

If you cut off two feet of the RIO 15 foot 3X leaders you are at 1X. I would imagine that if you cut off another two feet you would be at .013' which is the diameter of most of the sighter or indicator materials that people use.

[skeets]

sorry, just back from the afternoon session. bloody amazing, I am sitting on a river bank in the NE mountains in australia with a laptop and posting on a US forum, I am still amazed with this new fangled technology.

agree with your suggestion, 'cept the rio leaders have about 7ft of butt, which I find a little too much as it is a lot of heavy line, so hangs heavy and drags the leader down for longer fishing. I like a lighter line to keep it off the water. so, I shorten the butt section. the taper section of a rio 12ft standard mono leader is pretty close to the formula you published in your article in flytier, without the disadvantage of knots. Yes, Ill freely admit to how I know this. I was bored one night last year, and made a jig and then sat there for about 5 hours with various SA, umpqua, frogs and rios. and my micrometer. My wife muttered something about OCD and even more disparaging comments when she left me shaking her head and went to bed.
I came to an epiphany that casting is much cruder action, and precision in leader construction is not critical especially if nymphing on the bottom, which means heavier flies. An ample butt overcomes a lot of difficulties, and an obsession with specific diams and lengths is actually not needed, with "about right" being good enough generally, (esp. if throwing stoneflies as your anchor!). As long as the overall balance is about right, it'll do. decide the ration of level butt to taper and you're about there.
At least, that's been my experience to date. Just wondered what others thought.
Craig