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WET FLY WAYS. - Page 2
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Thread: WET FLY WAYS.

  1. #11
    *TPO Founder* JUICE's Avatar
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    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    Davy,

    If I was going to get one of your informative products for my buddy, what would be the first item you would purchase as a gift for a Wet Fly Beginner?


    "What you see going by is a shadow.
    You've got to live in front of your eyes"

  2. #12

    Re: WET FLY WAYS.


    Juice,

    If he does not have it, then the Wet Fly Ways DVD and a selection of my wet flies to go with.

    Davy.


  3. #13
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    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    Davyfly-
    I'm hoping that as this thread builds, you will recommend some of your favorite & most productive fly patterns for us, maybe both some patterns we might be familiar with, as well as some European ones- along with their dressings. I assume you have some original ones too. I'm also very interested to know the various methods you use to fish them, and how you rig your "cast".

    If you guys want to see some of the wets/soft hackles Davy likes, go to his website DavyWotton.com, click on "Fly Fishing & Fly Tying Articles", and then click on "3 Caddisflies"- also check out his "Sowscud" pattern (its a nymph pattern but it covers many bases). You can also click on the page that will tell you about his DVD "Wet Fly Ways", and also check out "Custom Tied Flies" if you want a set of his favorite wets.
    A Redneck's last words, "Hold my beer while I do this...."

  4. #14

    Re: WET FLY WAYS.


    The first lesson will be this.

    Your fly line to butt section connection.

    I do not use for a dry line a braided loop connection, they may well have some degree of convenience but overall l consider them worthless for many reasons.
    They are one of the main reason why l dry line will start to sink at the tip section. They inhibit a very delicate presentation. More to the point you are adding a configuration of knots/loop connections that you do not need.
    I would apply this to any method of fly fishing when a dry line is used, with may be the exceptions of when fishing for salmon or when streamer fishing when say you are using different additional tip sections added to the dry line.

    Over all when wet fly fishing this is not the case here.

    Same also for the short butt sections often used that again results in a large loop to loop connection with the leader added to the butt.
    You need to eliminate any thing that may well cause tangles, all be it tailing loops are the main cause, either way best not to have them to start with.
    Also when fishing slow flat zone water all of those loop connections cause line wake, and that may well spook fish.

    What we need is a straight configuration of leader material used for the set up. Also this style of fishing often demands chop and change as you fish a different zone or need to make changes to both size of fly and diameter of the mono used.

    As a rule we will always have the top dropper fly something like 4 to 6ft from the fly line, there may be a few exceptions to this. But as a rule for both dry and intermediate lines this will be the case here.

    Overall leader length configurations will be from 10 to 12 ft, at times a little longer for given circumstances, which we will deal with later.

    They way l do this myself is.
    A no knot connection from my butt section of 4 ft to the fly line, a nail knot is also good, l just prefer the no knot for dry lines it is way neater and avoids wake on the surface with this connection.
    A nail knot for intermediate lines is way OK as the line will be below the surface here.

    I generally do not use the regular tippet material for my leaders with may be the exceptions when fishing very small flies, may be 5x and on rare occasions 6x, as a rule l will be using hook sizes 12/14/16

    I buy the bulk spools of P-line which is available in regular mono, FC and co-polymer, they all differ sink rate wise.
    I have also been using Spider wire mono, has some very good uses at times due to very low stretch here l would be using this for sunk line work as a rule.
    Berkley also produce some good mono and FC filaments. Color of line will matter to me at times here, Manufacturers can say all they wish, any line is visible no matter how fine a diameter it is. If l can see it in my tanks then l know full well so can a fish.
    Even 8x will spook fish at times or make them wary, but accept that the finer diameter you use, the better advantage you will have overall.

    Your choice of mono used can make a great deal of difference believe me, a fact l have proved many times.

    OK, have to get for now guys, back later with Q and A

    Davy.





  5. #15
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    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    Interesting, and this brings up a few questions. Is the "no knot" connection you refer to a Zap-A-Gap splice that Whitlock is so fond of? I hear you two are good friends. What would be a typical diameter or break strength in the line you you to construct your "cast" of flies? Sounds like the P-Line is one of your favorites.

    Line visibility is a very interesting subject, and probably one that should be started on a separate thread. I think it would make a very interesting discussion.

    Read a very interesting article where they used "Edge Detection Technology" to scientifically compare the visibitliy of mono vs. fluorocarbon. They determined that 5x mono was equal in visibility to 1x fluoro. While I do think that smaller tippets catch more fish under certain conditions (smaller flies, slower/clearer water, sunny days, heavy fishing pressure, etc.), I think that the primary reason is that the flies are presented more naturally & drag-free due to greater flexibility of thinner diameter line. Not saying that fish seeing a tippet doesn't put them off sometimes, I just think that if fish were as put off by it as many people think that they wouldn't hardly ever eat our flies. Especially when you consider there is a hook hanging out the ass end! The Farmington is a pressured fishery near me with plenty of holdover browns that many say you have to fish super light tippets to catch. If you are using size 32 dries, yes. However, I catch lots with 4x-5x on my nymphs there, and catch plenty on dries with 5x & 6x tippets. Many others there nymph with 6x-7x and fish their dries on 7x-9x tippet, and even down to 12x!

    I've read that the optics in a fish's eye gives them 14 times LESS resolution than our eyes, meaning that they see far less clearly than we do, probably more like a slight "blur". I've also read that under ideal conditions, trout can probably perceive colors/shades that we cannot.

    What do you think about some of this stuff Davy? I know that the often low, super clear flows on the rivers you fish in Arkansas often make lighter tippets mandatory- seemed like 6x was the low water nymphing standard when I was down there, with 4x about right in higher flows. I'm guessing you typically use heavier tippets (on the average) when fishing wets as opposed to nymphing?
    A Redneck's last words, "Hold my beer while I do this...."

  6. #16
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    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    I started a new thread on "Line visibility & diameter" under the General Discussion section of the forum if anyone wants to reply to that specific topic there. Don't want to get Davy off-topic in his Wet Fly Ways thread, 'cuz it's really interesting stuff to me, a method I want to get better in. It's the "4th Discipline" (other than nymphs/dries/streamers) that many of us here are weak in, IMHO.
    A Redneck's last words, "Hold my beer while I do this...."

  7. #17

    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    "and even down to 12x!"

    Yes, I remember actually seeing a tippet spool marked 12x, I belive it was a Japanese company, perhaps Verivas?

    Torrey, could you post the link on the study for "Edge Detection Technology" on the new Line Visibility thread?

    Regards,
    FK

  8. #18

    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    Yes Varivas makes the 12X that you are talking about. It's not a true 12X because the diameter does not drop enough from the 8X to the 9X and so on. Ask Torrey about how strong the 8X midge tippet is ;D

  9. #19

    Re: WET FLY WAYS.


    For sure Dave Whitlock and l are great friends, and have known each other for many years, worked together at fly fishing events around the world, Dave knows his shit l can tell you, and certainly one of America's greats so far as his track record over the years, more than l can say for some others who have notoriety.

    Yes, it is the Whitlock zap a gap no knot connection l use. Many cannot see how this connection is strong enough, l can assure you it is if you do it right. In fact it will be the strongest connection in your entire system.

    The other knot that you guys should learn is mine, known as the Davy knot, if you Google this you will find there details of how to tie it, l use no other knot for fly connections.

    What is more important to me is not the actual BS ( BREAKING STRAIN ) of the line it is its diameter as this has a direct relation to fly animation and also how you are able to work the flies, particularly for the top or second dropper flies.
    The second consideration is how visible is that line, and that is a factor always related to 3 things.

    The first is the color of the body of water, is it gin clear or stained, it may be of a green tone or a brown tone.
    The second is the issue of overhead light penetration, here again a great influence either to line visibility or fly visibility.
    The third is, the substrate of the river bed, a factor that few do not consider. For example here, a very light toned gravel bottom when you have bright overhead light also reflects, where as a dark toned bottom say of mud does not.

    There are also days no matter what brand you use that the mono will cast a shadow on the river bed, even 7x will do that, and if that dark shadow is seen it will spook the fish, here you have to have the fly seen before the mono, which may mean a more across and downstream presentation.

    Tell you a little trick here. Get a laser pointer pen and see how that will penetrate water, fish will react to seeing that red dot on the river bed, try it also in a fish tank if you have one, you can drive fish nuts, but guess what, they will try to eat it, good for pissing off cats also !!

    So bearing in mind the above factors, there are days you can get days with a larger diameter and others you will not.
    Also consider that not all mono is the same, for the same given BS or DI, it may be supple or stiff.


    The breaking strain is more a consideration when you are fishing flies in a mode that may well promote a very hard take, which is often the case in certain situations when working with wet fly techniques. At the end of the day the loss of fish is almost always down to the angler, think about that one.
    You set the hook to fast or slow, you did not give the fish line when needed, you were using the wrong type of rod, IE, too fast of a action, given the BS of line you were fishing, you did not make secure knots and so on !!

    On the subject matter of mono or any other filament, yes, go to another thread for that.

    I look at it like this. Science may well be able to tell of how the fishes eye is composed, what it cannot tell you is how the fishes eye perceives the visual signal to its brain and there after determines its reaction to what it does see.
    Fish are no different to humans or any other animal life. each and every one is a individual all be it there may well be some common ground within the species.
    We know we have to eat to survive, so do they. We are also aware of danger or at least what to be aware of, so do fish.
    No question of doubt that fish have the ability in some ways to communicate. And that is easily proved.
    I am utterly convinced also that they have the capacity to retain some sort of knowledge if that is the way to explain it. You are not going to catch the same fish 100 times by the same means. And that is also easily proved.

    Fish within any water system do become aware of the human presence and what it is they do to try and catch them.
    The more those fish are subject to that the more difficult they become to catch, but as humans they also make mistakes, there are exceptions to the rule, even big trophy bucks screw up at times.

    Stock trout are stupid, if they survive and become more in tune with their surroundings and natural food base, coupled with that the awareness of humans, they become very difficult to catch, at times impossible, at least with a fly.
    Large Browns have a incredible sense of smell, make no mistake about that, a factor of course related to survival and instinctive awareness.

    Oh, forgot to say here, l studied biology in UV, one of my main interests in the 70s.

    All for now guys.

    Davy.




  10. #20
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    Re: WET FLY WAYS.

    Good stuff Davy. The topic of how fish react and deal with humans, fishing pressure and being caught repeatedly will be the subject of a thread I will start in the near future and hope to have you weigh in on.

    I've seen your "Davy Knot" on the internet and heard good things about it- tell me in particular what you like about it and why you feel it is the best fishing knot.

    What would be the typical range of tippet/line size/diameter that you use for your wets? Obviously it would vary depending on fly sizes, water clarity/speed, light conditions, etc., just curious to know what you normally use.

    Torrey
    A Redneck's last words, "Hold my beer while I do this...."


 

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