Fishing the redds: Lake Run vs Stream

[BlackLabel]

When you think about it it is really amazing the fact that there are wild fish in some of the rivers we fish. Lopat is right about the fall stock but there are people trampling all over the KLG all the time and there are still wild trout in there, as a matter of fact wild browns, brookies and rainbows. There are other rivers in this state that I think only support wild fish because of a lack of pressure and if they had people trampling through them all fall it would have a serious impact on the fish population.

In the case of the Farmington where there are very few wild fish (for the size of the river) maybe it would benefit from a closed season from say Oct. 15 to Jan. 1. Maybe it wouldn't help but I can tell that is a river that could produce a huge wild fish. You also have to look at it as does it really make a differnce on the Farmington? That river produce quality hold over fish year after year where as in NJ we don't have that. Any of our larger fish or going to be wild (few a far between) or a breeder that if its lucky lasts into the following spring.

In the case of the Salmon River it doesn't seem to be having a negative impact on the fishery but of course things could always be better. So my answer is I personally wouldn't fish to a trout on a redd but if the state leaves the rivers open its hard to get mad at people when they are with in the law. Also keep in mind NY closes most of the rivers where there are good populations of wild trout and in NJ sometimes no regulations are the best thing for our rivers. Keeps the people from going on the fish and game website finding out about a river and then going there and breaking the rules anyway.

[Walshmiko]

Speaking of the rainbows of the KLG, I cant beleive how many there are.. How are they taking hold in such numbers. so quickly...I don't want to blow up the spot or anything but my god...

[BlackLabel]

I haven't been there in a really long time but I got a really small one in July. Did TU do a trout in the class room stock or something? Aaron and I went through that place hard in the spring and I didn't get a single one now there are a bunch???

[Walshmiko]

I have caught a handful since the cooler temps, 3 to 4 in'..Near perfect little guys, but very little color to them..

[Nymphmeister]

Interesting question Alain, and a very controversial, gray area topic.

The tradition of Great Lakes tributary fishing is generally one of fishing for trout, steelhead & salmon on their spawning runs. In some cases, the fish are only available for a brief window when they run up, quickly spawn, and then drop back. Other rivers see the fish holding for many months. Some have natural reproduction (many rivers in MI, for example), but the majority I fish have little to none, as they are spate type rivers that damn near dry up in the Summer. Fishing for fish actually on their redds is controversial topic nowadays, and in the end is ultimately a personal decision.

There is also an East vs. West difference here. West coast anadromous fisheries are dominated by diminishing runs of wild fish, so they are very against fishing for spawners, as they want to do everything to preserve their fisheries. Great Lakes tribs are usually a different story in that regard, and as I mentioned there is a long history of fishing to spawning fish. Now there are tribs with lots of natural reproduction- I personally believe the Salmon River in NY is one of these, even though I haven't seen any recent hard data on that one way or the other. Is catching a fish right before they spawn any less stressful to them than fishing them on the gravel? I don't know. I guess if we really don't want to stress the fish, we shouldn't even fish for them in the first place. I do think it's disgusting when an angler kills a trophy Fall lake run female brown trout solely for her eggs. Doubly so when he's wearing a $400 raincoat. Although the picture in your post is from Bert Dam on 18 Mile Creek in NY, where to the best of my knowledge there is zero natural reproduction, so the angler in question is not harming the fishery, just his reputation. If anyone wants to see true combat fishing, go there sometime in the next few weeks, it's a zoo and a bloodbath, with plenty of anglers who have no respect for their quarry.

Fishing for resident stream trout seems to be a more controversial topic, at least in the East. Where the fish are wild, there is concern for negative effects on natural reproduction- although from the studies I've read, catch & release does no significant harm. The real harm is from walking on the redds & crushing the eggs. Some people feel that the trout are too vulnerable & easy to catch during the spawn, and thus should be left alone because it is unsporting to do so. Until not all that long ago, trout seasons were much shorter and closed off before spawning time & did not reopen until the Spring. Catch & Release regulations and better cold weather fishing gear and clothing has changed all of this.

I guess to some people, fishing the redds is like lowering a basketball backboard to 7 feet and then bragging about being able to dunk the ball. In the end it's all personal decision based on your own ethics & sense of fair play. And there are many gray areas that make it difficult to definitively say what is right or wrong, and it can be situational.

I probably didn't give you any of the hard answers that you wanted, but I hope this helped a little Grasshopper, I mean Alain.

[wwelz]

I am concerned that fly fishing for trout is so dependant on state funded stocking programs. The future of state budgets is very grim. State budget people are looking in every direction to cut. It is only a matter of time untill trout stocking programs face the budget ax. I think concerned sportman should get out in front of this and advocate for each state to do a better job of identifying and protecting streams and rivers where trout have the potential to reproduce and developing a plan to encourage wild fish. Some small streams may have to be shut down to fishing completely to accomplish this goal I like the reports on this site about the state of Ct effort to determine the population of wild trout in the farmington and capture some of those trout to be used as hatchery stock. I know that hind site is 20/20 but I think our sport and the environment would be much better of if all the money we spent on stocking fish in the last twenty years went to purchase ,preserve and protect land along various rivers and watersheds for trout habitat. I think the biggest enemy to wild trout is development.

[alanb_ct]

Torrey: thanks for an excellent, summative response, I was hoping you would reply. We had already discussed this issue personally, but I really wanted the whole board to hear. I guess I am hoping this will reduce the number of judgmental stares people get on the Farmington when fishing in the fall and whacking 'em good.

[NJFred]

From above....
"I guess to some people, fishing the redds is like lowering a basketball backboard to 7 feet and then bragging about being able to dunk the ball. In the end it's all personal decision based on your own ethics & sense of fair play. And there are many gray areas that make it difficult to definitively say what is right or wrong, and it can be situational. "

It's not like that at all. It's very incomplete. It's more like the hoop is lowered to 7 feet for 2 out of 10 people sharing the hoop and then it's broken by a zealous dunk which misses the mark and now the majority can't play anymore!

So I maintain, targeting wild fish on redds affects not only the fishery but other fisherman as well, that there are many situations where fishing for spawning trout on redss shouldn't be just a personal decision. Not at all. One is the West Branch of the Delaware where it is not a matter of personal choice. It's against the law. Thank god and NYS that there are regulations in place to protect wild spawning trout and their redds.

The reason it shouldn't be just a personal decision is that if there were not regulations and 20% of the fisherman decided to target spawners, given the sheer number of fisherman, the trampling alone of the redds would be certainly enough negatively affect the fishery. That in turn would affect the 80% of fisherman who didn't target spawning fish on redds.

Unlike other NE destination streams, The WBD relys 100% on natural reproduction and the fish there are all wild.

So those of you who think that fishing for wild spawning fish is a matter of personal choice you might want to consider the imact of it's practice on the fishery and your own fishing.

[Johny L]

If you told an European angler about this topic, they would be shocked, this wouldn't even be an issue as their rivers are closed - all of them. This country is one of the few that even allows anglers a chance to fish for trout on their redds.

[LopatNympher]

What I don't understand is that for many other species of gamefish regulations are in effect to protect them during their spawn periods. The seasons are either closed or there is a catch and release only rule in effect. The Sandusky river in Ohio used to be elbow to elbow in the spring during the walleye run. The ODNR has since closed it. There is a catch and release only rule in effect on the Delaware during the smallmouth spawn. I think NJ and PA should follow suit with trout. But it won't happen.