Match the Hatch... Fact or Fiction?

[NJFred]

[quote author=AaronJasper link=topic=3253.msg24398#msg24398 date=1245452632]
I have a fly pattern that will out produce any Dorothea pattern in JULY. It is matching a hatch but not the obvious one. I hope that you were not thinking that I would fish a white wulff during the day? The problem with the guys who fish the Delaware is that they get so miopic in their views on feeding fish.

As for the Green Drake vs smaller sulphers, to me its a matter of hatch duration and numbers. Since the trout have been seeing the sulphers for a longer period of time and their hatching coincides with the Drakes many trout will continue to feed on the smaller mayflies given their abundance. Now as for the spinner fall, that is different as the hatching bugs have ceased. The trout will often times seek out the larger drake spinners because at night the fish become more opportunistic. I have seen this with march browns. The sulpher spinners will greatly out number the march brown spinners but it seems as though the fish don't let one by.

Maybe its not matching the hatch per se, I would like to call it experience.
[/quote]

Agree Aaron during a dorthea spinner fall I've done well with march brown spinners. But the answer is that they tend to fall more sporadically than many flies and are around here and there for 3 to 4 weeks. IT IS matching the hatch to fish a march brown spinner at the time of year when they are around even if you don't see them on the water.

Once again... I know for a fact that trout have a memory for 2 to 3 weeks. Logically they must and I and others have firm evidence of such. Now in that march brown example fish a green drake and they will ignore it. The trout are NOT being opportunistic eating the March brown spinner they are simply eating something they recognize as food. but something that is present sporadically. Big difference.

BTW.. most anglers, including me, get myopic regarding our approach which is why one must have these great conversations! Thanks for your continued dialog.

With the white wulff... that was the question you posed to me!... with the dorthea hatch it must be a bug in the surface film or on top. So long is you are not fishing a dorthea sized nymph at or just below the surface... pitched to a rising fish. I stand by my point.... My buddies and i will simply out fish you with imitations to match the hatch.

[AaronJasper]

Ok you're right... There is no discussing this....

[kyle]

Fred,

I would love to know how you "know for a fact" that trout can only remember 2-3weeks? And what makes you think that trout arn't smart? They sure seem pretty smart to me...

[AaronJasper]

Kyle,

I can't answer the remembering question, as that hypothesis could truly only be answered by a scientist who conducts experiments on this. I can supply my hypothesis for the latter. Trout are simple creatures and they are conditioined to feed on certain food sources at different periods of a day. This leads them to eat only certain insects, when at times there are others of greater intensities out there.

[BlackLabel]

I not going to argue with anyone but what I've been told is trout actually aren't very smart and that is what makes them difficult to catch. I mean think about it you guys are talking about them passing up drakes for sulphers, thats not very smart. Lots of other fish out there would go for the biggest meal they could but not trout.

[AaronJasper]

Not to mention us humans would want to eat the largest thing or the most calories... Or maybe that's only me

[BlackLabel]

General Tso's ;D

[Soft-hackle]

Hi,
I've been looking at this discussion and I begin to put something together. If we consider trout as a predator, which I believe they are thanks to Bob Wyatt's theories, then would it make sense that size wouldn't matter, but vulnerability might? I'm wondering if the abundance of insects of one over another might make those insects more vulnerable. Or perhaps, because, in the case of drakes over dorotheas, the drakes hatch much more quickly than them, again making the smaller fly more vulnerable. Understand what I'm saying?

Mark

PS--After re-reading Bob's writing on fly design-he actually has come to about the same conclusion

[NJFred]

[quote author=kyle link=topic=3253.msg24405#msg24405 date=1245462452]
Fred,

I would love to know how you "know for a fact" that trout can only remember 2-3weeks? And what makes you think that trout arn't smart? They sure seem pretty smart to me...
[/quote]

Trout have a brain the size of a pea. Intelligence in the animal world has been correlated with brain size. They aren't smart. In fact why would any "smart" trout eat one of our imitations with a hook coming out of the body? And... they do it again and again and again.

With regard to the length of their memory... not sure how long it last but it's probably not long. I was very surprised to see them remember a bug that stopped hatching 2 weeks ago. Then again there was nothing else started at the time.

[NJFred]

Wanted to chat about trout as opportunists.

First what they eat (and have been conditioned to.. which is a great word someone above has used) dramatically depends upon their system. In a rich system like the Delaware trout can grow and prosper by only eating one "pattern" (over a period of time) that they recognize as food ignoring other "patterns" which are food. The Pattern they see and recognize is plentiful enough for them to feed exclusively on this. They don't need waste energy rising to something which looks different and may not be food. They don't risk getting picked off by a predator for no reason. Now take a trout in an insect poor system. This fish has to be much more opportunistic. They must rise to all sorts of stuff to be able to maintain body mass. They have to take more risk and waste more energy rising to something that doesn't look like food. In fact they may have an extended view of what is food which does rule out some things that aren't food and rules in things which look kind of like food (attractor flies).

So for me... rich systems naturally bring on selectivity neccessitating match the hatch for the fisherman to be most successful.