DRF/DFM

[Davyfly]

Any of you guys know what these two abreviations refer too.
DRF/DFM.
Aaron has asked me to discuss this on the forum.

Davy

[Mantis]

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[AaronJasper]

There are many threads and dubbing out there that are labeled "flourescent." I always wonder how many of them really are in fact flourescent. I have many rabbit dubbings that are labeled as such but none of them have the glow like the Flourescent dyed fritz that Alain got me from the UK. Does anyone know of any true flourescent threads?

[Soft-hackle]

Hi,
I studied a lot of color theory when in college, and with regards to solid materials like thread, etc, FLORESCENT, meant colors that were brightened to reflect more light. The resulting color was intensified, like what is known as "Hunter Orange". There is a certain amount of "glow" to them because they reflect more, and glow under "black light"-UV light.

Another term LUMINESCENT indicates a glowing substance, usually at low temperatures-like the dials on watches. Some things produce BIO-LUMINESCENCE, like a substance known as Foxfire-a luminescent fungi.

Which are you looking for? I've seen many florescent tying materials. Sometime they are called "HOT" colors. I've only seen occasional luminescent materials used for fishing. You know, the kind that you expose to light, then they glow in the dark.

Mark

[Davyfly]

Mantis, you cheated !! but your answer is partly correct.
You get one free DW fly and not 10.

I will get back to this tomorrow guys, l have to get some flies tied tonight.
This is a very interesting subject matter, and one l do know a great deal about, so l am sure you will find the history interesting and its relationship to fishing flies.

Davy.

[Davyfly]

OK,

What we are talking about here is how the use of Fluorescent materials came into being so far as fishing flies.

We are dealing with essentially in the world of fly tying products two factors.

Materials that are iridescent such as Peacock herl.
Why do we see a the property of iridescence. In simple terms it is a optical issue related to how light or its source influences the surface. A phase shift, or interference caused by relative angles that are viewed.
In the case of a fishing fly that incorporates materials of this nature that can apply from both direct and reflected light sources.

Luminescence is a very different issue as by and large it is not relevant to what we use so far as a fly is concerned, all be it there has been those who have incorporated material properties that have this effect, in other words a afterglow effect.

Which means after being subjected to a light source there is a afterglow, which is not the case for materials that are termed by us as Fluorescent, there is no afterglow, it has to be a visible factor created by a light source, more later here.

Bioluminescence occurs in nature, living organisms, such as those that live in the depths of the ocean, squids, jelly fish and other fish species for example or terrestrial bugs such as glow worms and fireflies.
These are chemical reactions, again not to be confused with Fluorescent material properties.

So far as l am aware of there are no aquatic food sources that trout would see that have this effect, there are in the case of terrestrials.

However in the case of iridescent properties there are aquatic life forms that demonstrate this. A typical examples would be the wings of a spinner, beetles, how this is perceived by the fishes eye is another matter.

OK that said.

The first person to make a serious attempt to incorporate chemical dyes that had FL properties for fly tying material was John Ganter, early 1940s.
All be it FL properties had been around for some time before this, but had as yet not been adapted for fly tying use.
If l recall it was first used by magicians and also during the war for signal devices.

Thus the name of Gantron will go down in fly fishing history as his business was the first to offer fluorescent dyed materials for the fly tyer.
Ganter worked with the Du Pont corporation who produced the material for fly tying which was in the early years slurry dyed filaments, which l still own a good amount of.
There is by the way nothing like it today out there.

The Gantron corporation eventually went out of business.

Subsequently two versions of FL material became available, which were in the early days, filaments and floss.
Know as DRF, Depth Ray Fire, DFM, Daylight Fluorescent material, which was a British version, no longer available.

The main differences between the two was how they were produced. DRF was very intense by color due to its slurry dyed process, while the UK DFM was way less due to how it was dyed, but saying that it also had great use.

What are the properties of FL material.

1. There has to be a light source to activate.
2. FL dyed material is capable of absorbing atmospheric light (UV) and then re-emitting this as perceived light, of increased wavelength.
What is further interesting is that FL colors are mainly those as seen in the visible spectrum all be it there are variations in dye ware used to change this.

If however you look at the colors that are more so intense you will know they are in the red/orange/yellow/Blue/Green spectrum's.

The colors that were originally sold were by the name for the DRF brand

Fire Orange
Arc Crome
Phosphor yellow
Neon Magenta
Horizon Blue
Electron White
Sunrise pink
Signal Green.

More or less we have same to day but under different names. For example Signal green is known today as Chartreuse. To dye this shade you use a FL dye ware.

So what got me interested in the use of FL material.
In the late 60s when l was tying commercially l received a letter from a fellow in London asking if l would tie for him flies to his specifications, like l had not heard that one before.
I replied and said yes l would, given l would be able to see what he wanted.
Colin, which was his name called me and asked if l had ever use DRF FL materials, which l had not. If l recall there was only one source for it in the UK, at that time, or at least the then original material, no longer available.

He also made me promise not to copy and sell to any other his fly patterns, which l agreed to.

I will be back a little later here guys. Dinner is on the table.

Davy

[Davyfly]

OK,

So l gets the fly samples. nothing that special regular looking wet fly patterns, at least that was my first glance, then l saw the difference for in the tail sections were these very fine filaments and they glowed like you would not believe.
So l called Colin, l had no idea where to obtain the material, l will send it to you if you wish to tie the flies with the very specific details of what colors to use , how many filaments for each fly pattern and so on.
So began my interest with FL material.

To further convince me Colin wished for us to fish together. Colin never owned a car and used the railway system, at that time l owned a BSA Gold star 500cc bike.
So meet with Colin at the station and we drove to what was then a well know trout reservoir.

I

[AaronJasper]

What are the brightest flourescent threads available today??

[Davyfly]

I can still remember to day what Colin rigged up with. A 4 fly wet fly team

A Black pennel with a Arc crome tail
A Claret mallard with neon magenta tail
A Connemara black with a Arc crome tail
A Peter Ross with Fire orange tail.

Now wet fly fishing for me at that time was no new experience, l will tell you he hammered me, and l know why it was, the flies, no question of doubt because he gave me some at the time and my catch rate climbed in a hurry.

Do not assume that this is the magic answer for it is not, its only worth is when you know from experience what flies to use under the given prevailing conditions.
Further there is a difference between fish species, Browns, Bows, Cutts and Brooks, how they see these flies. Browns l almost have figured, Bows are a little different due to how they perceive color transition, emitted or transmitted effects given available light sources.

Thus many years of fishing and research took place between us until Colin passed away.

As the years passed by so l began to use FL dyes for my fly tying material business and learned many things about how materials could be altered color wise form the natural state to those that exhibited way more color definition and enable flies to be way more productive provided you knew under what prevailing conditions to use them, as that is one of the factors needed.

To day there is a vast array of materials that are dyed with FL pigments and whitening agents, many of which you would not realise unless you subjected the materials to a UV light source also known as a black light.

There are reasons for this, and its not only due to produce a FL material. It is largely due to the fact that more intense color can be dyed, also in many cases the FL dye ware is way more effective to use than other types of chemical or powder based dyes.

Also many of the natural materials we use have to be preprocessed before they are dyed and often as not whitening agents are used.
Go check out the white marabou you are using it will fluoresce, so will the likes of white duck quills, poultry necks and so on.
Not to mention dubbing materials, which is how l often obtained the color blends with SLF, l added FL dye pigments

What we are saying here is that you may well be using material that are not sold or indicated as Fluorescent, but in fact are.
And that includes fur and feather, tying threads, floss and many other materials.

Make no mistake if you know which colors to use and when, you can create and alter dramatically the advantages with standard type well known fishing flies, be they dry, emergers, wet, soft hackles, streamers and nymphs.

If you wish to delve further into this interesting subject then go get a black light and subject all you fly tying materials and flies to it you will be amazed.

One factor l forgot to add here is that material that is FL dyed has no after glow.
You will find also that depending on time of year, angle of sun, time of day and other atmospheric factors the intensity of emission will vary given the FL color which is also related to how it is tied to the fly.
Is it detached as for tails and wings or as a wind for the body, as this also has a influence one way or the other.

I will post a few pics of what the original Gantron material looks like before too long.

All for now

I will of course further the thread related to Q and A

Davy

[Davyfly]

Aaron,

You asked two questions here.
How do you know that a material will fluoresce, either by experience dealing with the material or by obtaining a UV light source and subjecting the material to that light source.

Threads.

Both Danville and Wapsi UTC produce thread that is fluorescent.
Danville also produce floss.

there are of course other products out there that do same.

One further factor here is this. The color you see with the human eye may differ some under the influence of a UV light as that produces intense light rays and activation issues.
However it will tell you that the material is FL active, measured.

Under the influence of daylight UV influence this will differ as it will also when the fly is submerged below the water surface, UV rays become scattered, that is not to say that the color definition used for the fly is not highly visible as it will be given the depth and clarity of the water.

Which leads more into the issues of color visibility under water, a very involved subject matter, all be it there is a interest to understand the scientific reasoning, l try not to let this consume my way of thought, as it is more a issue of experience and choice of flys used all be it there may be some logic to it.

Davy

DW