Trout vision.

[Davyfly]

Now this may end up to be a long thread at the end of the day, and it is a subject matter that has been well discussed in past FF history.

So here it is, please try to stay within the context of this thread, as l know this can lead to many other somewhat related issues.

The subject matter is this.

What is your beliefs so far as the color perception of trout and why do you think it matters or makes a difference.
Forget all you may read so far as the scientific basis on understanding of the make up of the fishes eye.
Relate it to fishing experiences and your thoughts why.

DW

[nutman]

Ive been reading what bergman had to say ,and it is intersting ,he has alot to say about how flys (real ones )are translucent ,and the way the time of day ,and cloud cover ,and the color spectrum can affect how a fly works .he talks about using brown spiders (the fly ,which im imagining is the brown spider wet fly we talk about )and how the brown color doesnt lose its color in the sun but that the grey spider would .You have to remeber that trout look up to the sun ,he also mentions that grey would be better on a cloudy day because it would be closer to say a natural in color because it would be easier to see on a could day .I do think that salmonids see color ,but possibly in a different spectrum then we think

[alanb_ct]

Davy: What an excellent topic for discussion. It is hard to separate what I have read and my own observations, but I will try. For the reader interested in this topic, many books by LaFontaine, Borger, Martin and Cairncross cover this thoroughly.

I agree with Nutman that trout see well into the ultraviolet beyond our visible range. Our perceptions of color probably differ from a trout. Many of my observations echo the standard adages your hear all the time. I tried to group my thoughts by topic area.

Weather: "Dark day, dark fly. Bright day, bright fly" I agree with this one, finding that the bright gold beads and white streamers are best in late spring and summer closer to high noon. This variation is not only seasonal, but diurnal. The sunlight at noon in the winter may be equivalent to morning sun in the summer and so on. In CT at least, it is hard to object to a larger darker fly near dusk.

Species: Rainbows definitely prefer pinks, bright and pale. Browns definitely prefer oranges and yellows. I think this is due to their own coloration. Rainbows have pink fins and I believe when they see a pink fly they may interpret this as competition for food and they strike. As fall comes and browns assume spawning colors, yellow flies come in to their own.

Sunlight in general: As the sun traces its path each day, the color of the light changes, from reddish in the morning and evening, towards orange at mid-day. Flies with hotspots in these colors will be more visible at these times. I don't experiment much with blues and greens but I should.

Seasons: Since the sun is filtered through the streamside foliage, the predominant color on the stream takes on the foliage colors. This is one reason that nature makes sure that early insects are brown (no leaves, bark is brown) early in season, then orange, bright green and yellows when the leaves arrive. In the fall, the Pumpkin Caddis arrives with the orange foliage. So, it is wise to use brighter flies when the leaves emerge.

Water clarity: After the first frosts, the water turns noticeably more clear. At this time, the sun angle is also lower, so the sun appears less bright. Time to use your red hotspots.

This past few years, I have experimented with hotspots in the following colors, both fluoroscent and plain:
Red
Yellow
Pink
Cerise
Green
Orange
Fire Orange
For my hotspots, I often use the threads in the UTC 70 variety. Each hotspot seems to have its moments according to my observations above. If nothing else, having variable hotspots may separate your flies from your fishing partners. I know that when Aaron and I fish together with similar flies (since we trade ideas constantly), a change in hotspot will often produce another fish or two from the same area.

I hope this all makes sense and I don't sound too much like Gary LaFontaine!

[alanb_ct]

By the way if you want to read about the science behind all this, do a Google search on "Water Absorption Spectrum" and "fluoroscence."

[LopatNympher]

Do the shells of aquatic invertabrae absorb and reflect different parts of the light spectrum? The reason I ask is that if the shells reflect say only the reds oranges and yellows would a trout's vision be keyed in to use this in order to distinguish a bug from from a piece of drifting debris that does not have this translucence?

[Nymphmeister]

Alain-
Great stuff, you've done some on-stream research, always the best kind I find.

This thread could lead to me typing some insanely long replies :P, so I'll limit this first one to the color black.

It seems to work for all species under a variety of conditions, and is especially attractive to rainbows/steelhead, whether in the form of a stonefly nymph, woolly bugger, egg-sucking leech, etc. Think of some other popular black flies such as beetle patterns, ants, foam flies such as Chernobyl Ants, etc. I think it is a color that stands out in clear or dirty water in a variety of light conditions, but without being gaudy or unnatural or spooking the trout. In low light, if viewed against the sky, it cuts a strong contrast- witness how almost all night fishermen favor flies tied primarily in black. And for maximum visibility, such as you would need in really dirty water, pair it with some fluorescent colors.

On the Truckee River in CA, a very productive streamer to fish for trophy browns during run-off is the Goblin- essentially a large black Woolly Bugger with a bright orange Zonker strip pulled over the top of the fly. Under clear water conditions it usually fails, but in really dirty water it is supposed to be hard to beat- I think the contrast of the darkest color of all (black) paired with fluorescence gives you the best chance of having a trout see your fly, always the biggest problem in really off-color water. Fluorescent colors could, of course, merit a super-long thread all of their own.

I'm not sure how trout see the color black, but I do know that it is a color that is very attractive to them, and at moments is unbeatable.

[nutman]

i feel that dark flys will always out produce light flys in stained or churned up muddy water ,the siloute is easier for the fish to see .
Take bright sunny day hold a natural and a fly that match toward the sun ,this is the way the fish sees the fly slowly turn from the sun with the flys in the air ,it will change your mind on what fish see .
I do feel that at certain times fish only see the siloute of the fly which makes it important for the fly to resemble the natural in shape.
I do think they see colors as well ,Dick Talleur did a study with floss body flys seeing which showed the color better .A fly with mylar under the dubbing brougth out the dubbing ,or floss color more brilliant .Which brings me back to flys (the naturals ) being translucent ,the mylar underbody helps create this effect .Davy has shown this to be true with silk bodies ,i think he even put up pictures .
Time of day and weather all effect how trout see ,if you have a pool you could really test how fish see by going under the water and looking up at your flys ,it would be an interesting test to see what the colors looked like . according to bergmen ,they tested colors of flys at different times of the day to see what colors worked best a certain times .I think things change though river to river .due to fish feeding habits being different at different times .and different times of day ,how many times have you been on the river and it was hot in the afternoon and the fishing was great only to have evening come and it turns off ?Or vise versa

[NJFred]

Great topic Davy. However, can't really forget the good science. It's conclusions are far more likely closer the truth rather than our own unscientific observations. The science concludes trout do see colors.

Now on to my own observations. Typically on the Delaware, using the right size and silohuette of a fly, I will get more takes with a fly in it's natural's color rather than a different color (drys).

Having said this I find size and silohuette (essentially stage of emergence) to be more important than color. I have seen the rare occasion where color is at least as important as silohuette.

[AuSableTrophyhunter]

I fished the last two weekends. One weekend the river was ultraclear and low. I caught all of my trout on an Alexandra. A neighbor told me he caught 3 trout on a RED wired nymph.
Same river next weekend, Water very high fast and turbid. The dam had been opened for scheduled maintainace on the dam. Totally different water conditions but I used a large red streamer with tiny red streamer behind it on sink tip line. In the high water it seemed to me that the trout were not hungry because food was extremely abundant. I believe the RED color in Autumn stimulates aggression by trout. The first weekend, I caught rainbows and a brown. Next weekend a total of 4 browns(fishing was poor).
BTW, Kelly Galloup has often stated that in his streamer fishing he feels the color of the streamer is more important than the pattern itself. Galloup (and I), change streamer colors frequently untill we catch fish. I believe streamer size is as important as color though.
I tie my own flies and I am very color conscious. I have strong beliefs and opinions on fly colors according to river and weather conditions, species and the natural forage base. In most cases, if I dont know about a river and havent any info, I use a fly color that matches the bottom of the river. Sandy bottom means tan streamer for example. Muddy, turbid water after heavy rain, I will use yellow, red or even fluoro nymph colors.
I have noted that a fly I had huge success with last year, does not work as well this year. But, there are some classics that persist. Alexandra, and hare's ear are seldom wrong. Black and olive wooly bugger etc.

[NJFred]

White seems to work the best for me on the Delaware. Movement in my opinion, in terms of the material used and tied and the action the angler provides when it is fished is as important as color.

Black is a killer at night.