Czech Grub Hook Comparison / Review

alanb_ct · 07-09-2008, 07:39 PM

I have been experimenting with different hooks for tying Czech nymphs (caddis larvae), and I thought a comparison would be worthwhile. I took some care to make detailed photos of 6 of the most common hooks (I used the macro of my 8MP camera). All pictures are of size 14 and they are in order of my preference.

Knapek G

Skalka G

TMC 2499SPBL

TMC 2457

TMC 2487

TMC 2488H

In terms of hook penetration, the Knapek can't be beat. It is the only hook that willfully sticks to your hand when you are trying to pick it up. The point is that sharp. It also possesses an offset point, a boon for maintaining the super sharp point, as your fly tumbles along the bottom.

The Skalka is awesome too, but with a slightly less defined point and no offset.

The point on the 2499 is quite similar to the Knapek, but no offset.

The other TMC hooks are provided for size/aspect comparison, since they are more common. All are fine products, especially for traditional fishing methods like indicator nymphing. I do not believe they will penetrate as well as the top two on the hook set. I only have barbed versions of those hooks.

Happy tying!

**LorenWilliams** · 07-09-2008, 08:37 PM

Alan: note that the Skalka point is not parallel to the shank (understood that the shank is curved but you know what I mean). That can be as effective as the offset point. Only time and many fish will tell--but I am sure you'll be as happy to put the effort in as I am!

FWIW: the 2499SPBL is fine for larger fish as are the other SPBL's--but the point is too short to hold small guys that do not create adequate tension.

alanb_ct · 07-09-2008, 10:21 PM

I forgot to mention that the Skalka hooks are available down to a size 18. Knapeks only go as small as 16.

**Davyfly** · 07-10-2008, 11:24 AM

interesting subject matter here.
I was one of the technical directors at the Partridge hook company, while there many tests were done to establish whether on hook profile over another was better.

There are many things that determine good hooks sets, some of which we have no control over.

1. You cannot know and determine how a fish will take the fly and how when you apply tension to set the hook it will find its point of penetration.
2. How the hook set is made by the angler. You can only do this by three ways.
By sight. such as when indicator fishing, be that with a bobber or watching the line or seeing the fish take the fly.
By feeling the take.
By instinct.

In all of the above cases, by and large the hook makes no difference, it is largely personal choice.

I would only argue that fine wire hooks may bend and reduce effective hook hold, if the hook is within the outer edges of the fishes mouth.

I can give many examples here, but use this one.

I have two clients fishing with identical rigs.

The one guys hooks and lands all fish, the other lands only a 60%, go figure.

It is the fisherman and not the hook.

There is no way in the world period, that all fish that take your fly will be hooked and landed, its not going to happen.

The only hook l dislike is the swimming nymph hook. The relative angle of the upturned eye in relation to the bend in the LS shank is not good. Not that the fish would pay any attention to that detail to start with.

Bottom line guys is this. There is no way to prove that one hook is overall better than another, it is personal choice.
I prefer a narrow gape for some patterns, you may choose a wide gape, offset, up eye, down eye, straight eye, profile and all else related to the fly it is tied on.
It cannot be treated as a science of fact.

Ask the fish !!

I would add only this. A hook with a sharp point will afford way better penetration, particularly those with fine wire.
Secondly the energy exerted by a good hook set is considerable. Set hook point against finger and have your friend set the hook as he would when a fish takes the fly, it will stick well into your finger in a hurry.

Davy.

**TroutAholic** · 07-10-2008, 11:36 AM

Davy, I think I will take your word on that one, and skip the experiment.

Steve

**Davyfly** · 07-11-2008, 03:08 PM

Steve,

One of the tests we did at Partridge hook factory was very much like this.
Only wood was used. The main purpose was to see how the relative angle of pull exerted would determine depth of penetration at a given lbs energy, which in most cases when fishing is going to be between 2 to 4lbs, depending on the action of the rod
There was a difference between hook profiles, up, down, straight eyed hooks, interesting that many of the hooks offset and kerbed did not penetrate well.
Couple that with the angle that the hook was being pulled, direct in line, to the side and all other angles, all of which make some difference, at the end of the day all of which permitted penetration.
In the case of a fish, the relative angle of initial hook set regardless of the hook used will determine a good hook hold or not, here again it cannot during a fishing situation be determined in a scientific manner.

Look at it like this. A fish hooked in deep water with a dead drift rig differs from one hooked on the surface with a dry. In one case the hook is being pulled in a upward direction, in the other it will be a more so sideways direction.
Then use the example of a fish hooked with a upstream presentation and one hooked downstream. In the first case the fly is being pulled back into the fishes mouth, the other it is being pulled away.

Differences were also related to wire diameter of the hook fine wire versus heavy weight gauge, fine wire hooks may well spring and reduce effective hook hold, if penetration was minimal, or it was stuck against bony mouth parts and not softer tissue.

In the case of wood test it did not move, a fish of course will during the initial take of the fly and after it is hooked, which is a factor impossible to calculate.

The old way of thought regarding up eye for fry fly and down eye for wet fly, are as we know to day not a issue by and large. Other issues in the past also related to the knots that were used to tie the fly to a gut leader/tippet. A turle knot for example needs more so a up turned eye, as this knot is set over the hook eye.
Few trout angler use this knot to day, many Salmon fisherman still do

Hooks that had ultra fine sharp points were also more so subject to the point turning over, same scenario when you jag rocks when fishing.
Not a good thing to happen as a blunt point will lessen effective hooking.

It is at the end of the day a very debatable subject matter. I can only add further, l have hooked and landed some very big trout using fine wire hooks and lost some, same scenario with heavy gauge streamer hooks. There is no guarantee with any hook used.

But l will argue that the initial hook set is by and large the main determining factor and not the hook.
The profile of the hook to produce flies that resemble in some ways a more anatomical appearance is another matter.

Davy.