Black Caddis Larva & Black Fly Larva

Anyone had good success fishing imitations of Black Caddis Larva? The actual larva are interestingly enough not black at all, but rather yellow with a light/medium brownish head, in about a #18-20 or so from what I've seen. They almost resemble a Midge Larva. I know the fish eat them, because I've stomach pumped them out of trout on the Farmington. FYI, when I was there Tuesday there were quite a few Black Caddis adults on the rocks. I've had luck at times dead drifting a black soft hackle pupa version on the bottom and under a dry (when they were rising).

Black Fly Larva are also present in most streams, including the Farmington. Anyone tried to imitate these, and if so with what success? One of my friends has successfully done so using a latex pattern w/ a darker head tied on a #20 scud type hook.

Boy, I fished in Maine, totally immersed in blackflies, but never tried the nymph. I believe they are a type of larva that rappel along the stream bottom by silk tether. Don't some folks simulate this effect by coloring their tippet white? I think LaFontaine mentions a similar event with caddis and his company sells the correct magic marker for the job. (Nymphmeister: please fill in the gaps in my explanation, thanks.)

I know that the anglers that fish on the Upper Jackson River in Virginia fish a lot of black fly larva up near the dam. I would venture to say that black fly larvae are extremely important on rivers where there are not diverse hatches. With that being said I really don't know enough about the fly or its behavior to make any analysis as to its importance as a food for trout.

I think Don Holbrook has a pattern for the black fly larvae in Midge Magic.

Yes Alain, LaFontaine talks about using a Mean Streak marker to make your tippet white- the old timers in Maine used to fish a fly on white thread to imitate it. Wonder if they figured it out thru trial & error or observation. The white marker trick also works with certain Caddis larva that also rappel on a silk thread- this includes most cased Caddis and I think some free-living ones too. Brown Maxima Chameleon works for certain free living Caddis larva that rappel from brown silk thread- Rhyacophila, it's in his book "Caddisflies". He also mentions that when fishing their larva (also know as Green Rock Worms), that you should fish them in the faster water as opposed to slow- a test they did found them to be almost 4x more effective in swift, broken curents. Cased Caddis way outperformed them (about 3x better) in slow water, their natural habitat. While the Cased Caddis are at their best in slower flows, they also worked in faster water too- albeit only a little better than half as good as in the slower water. I've tried the white marker trick only a few times- the first time I tried it I got a really nice, big holdover on the Housy on an otherwise slow, late Winter/high water day. I snagged two #6 stick cased Caddis on my nymphs in about 10 minute, so I said hmmm, maybe it should try imitating that- just so happened I had a pretty much exact match in my box, go figure.

Black fly larva are small, a #16 would be a big one. I think a #18-20 would be about average, and I know they fish them on rivers like the Jackson in VA down to a #24. They usually have a light colored, translucent body and a darker head, and sort of a bowling pin shape to them, fattest near the rear. Natural cream latex on a #18-20 hook with a darker head would work. Not sure on the best where/when scenario, but it's certainly worth a shot on a river like the Farmington or Croton where the fish get pummeled with the usual assortment of flies. LaFontaine has info on this in "Trout Flies- Proven Patterns", as well as his own funky pattern for them.

And yes Rego, there is a pattern for Blackflies in Midge Magic, on pages 33-35. Author Don Holbrook makes a very strong statement, "If you tie only one pattern out of this whole book, make it this one". He says the larvae can be found in #18-24 in various shades of gray to brown, and that they might be the most widespread small insects of interest to fishermen. Further, he says it is the most successful out of the many patterns he has come up with in his lifetime, and has worked for him everywhere he has fished it. Gotta tie that one up!

Torrey, I assume you are talking about the larva of the winter caddis?

Steve-
No, I'm talking about Black Caddis (prob Chimarra, but I'm not positive on that)- the Winter Caddis on the Farmington are more of a lighter brown color in the adult stage. The larva are also yellow though, just like the black caddis. A #18 larva in yellow with a light to medium brownish head should cover both bases- maybe even a #20. Black Fly larva are the larval form of the annoying black flies that bite the living daylights out of us in warmer weather.

So nobody else has any experience with imitating or fishing Blackfly larva?

Davyfly-
You have any input on fishing & tying Blackfly larva?

Midge Magic is the only place I've seen them discussed Torrey... Borger might have mentioned them briefly in something, but Midge Magic is the only place I remember a discusison and a pattern.

I know Torrey's hero Gary Lafontaine mentions them in one of his books.

Gary LaFontaine has a Blackfly larva pattern on pages 42-44 in "Trout Flies". It's pretty simple: #16-20 1xl nymph hook (Tiemco 3761 for example), dark olive floss on the rear half, next 1/4 dark grey dubbing, head of black ostrich or marabou. Weight the front 1/2 of the hook with fine lead wire, tie with black thread, finish with small head. You could probably substitute a smaller metal or glass bead for the head or ostrich/marabou- I would undersize the bead to keep it in line with the natural bug. Gary also recommends fishing the pattern on a tippet stained white on the last 6-8" with a Mean Streak marker (made by the Stanford Corp.). This imitates the silk thread the larva often rapel on.

There are some cool patterns for Blackfly larva on the Westfly website. Here they are:
http://www.westfly.com/fly-pattern-r...simuliid.shtml
http://www.westfly.com/fly-pattern-r...iidlarva.shtml
http://www.westfly.com/fly-pattern-r...flylarva.shtml

What little I've been able to find about imitating & fishing them seems to point toward them being a very underutilized pattern that can be deadly at moments. I do know they tend to inhabit faster water. I may tie some up to try on the Farmington tomorrow.

Check out these 2 short Blackfly articles also on Westfly- the 2nd one overlaps with the fly pattern links in my previous post.

http://www.westfly.com/feature-artic...eature_657.htm

http://www.westfly.com/feature-artic...eature_658.htm

Here is a cool excerpt from the 1st link in this post:
"In a study by Dr. J. David Allan, one of the premier stream ecologists in the country, black flies were consistently consumed by trout at a much higher rate than their proportion in the drift. While simuliids composed about 10% of the drift, they made up nearly 70% of the trout diets in June and July!

If that isn't enough for you, consider that on the same stream, Baetis--the orthodox angler's security blanket--made up 70% of the drift and contributed a mere 20% of the total trout diet, while other common drifters, Ameletus and Ephemerella mayflies, were nearly unscathed."

Torrey, I thought I read a lot and retained info. Dude.......you totally put me to shame. I love it LOL. The even better thing about this is that in the last 3 months, I have learned a ton about certain patterns from you and certain fly behavior. Great stuff. By the way, I believe the body of the adult winter caddis is more dark grayish black. If it is brown at all, it must be a VERY dark brown that looks dark gray, black. The pupa is brown. I use gray for the adult's body and have had tons of success.

You are prob right about the color of the adults. I know the pupa are light brown, and I just assumed the adults were the same color. Guess that explains all the "Black Caddis" adults I've been seeing on the rocks. I'll have to ask the master of Farmington insects, Dave Goulet, about this.

Any relation to Robert?

Rego,
Your on a roll :D Or a bun : :-\..........wacka wacka wacka

So have any of you played around with the Blackfly Larva patterns? Still haven't gotten any feedback. I really think it's a sleeper pattern.

Opie-
I spoke with Dave Goulet, and the Winter Caddis adults are the same color as the pupa, sort of a muddy, light brownish/olive. The black adult Caddis we see sometimes are the Black Caddis, an entirely separate hatch.

In all the years I have fished the Farmington, I have to say that I don't think the fish really care. The adult winter caddis are not much larger than the small black caddis. The adult winter caddis I see on the water are 18 to 20. Winter caddis around the same size maybe a little smaller. The winter caddis pattern looks just like a black caddis and I am sure to the fish, it looks very much a like.

Alrighty then. Just relaying what big Dave told me- the Black Caddis adults are black, the Winter Caddis aren't.

Cool info to know though 8)

Yeah Dave is a wealth of knowledge on Farmington bugs.

So I take it nobody on here has played around with Black Fly Larva patterns? I've got a few ideas, but I'm looking for some good flies & info on where and when they work the best.

Midge magic is the only place I've ever read about them.

I was reading about them at Torrey's it was either Lafontaine or Borger but I think it was a book by Lafontaine.

Yeah, "Midge Magic" and also LaFontaine's "Trout Flies" mentions them. Westfly.com has some cool Black Fly larva patterns too. I also wanna tie some with latex.

Torrey:

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/...ablackfly.html

Aaron, you're right, I forgot that Borger talks about them in Presentation.

Thanks for the link Loren.

Rego-
Now I'm gonna have to get my copy of Presentation and look it up, you bastard.

it brief in the foods section i think

Tie the fly, forming the body with black thread. Switch to white thread or a fine white floss, then wrap the white over the black thread with 2 layers (at most) of white over the black. The black color will bleed through the white when wet and looks much like the natural.

Slo-
Sorta like a traditional tie of the Miracle Nymph, maybe a Black Fly larva it what it really imitates, not a Midge.

Great photos, as usual: http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/650

Partial quote of a comment by Gonzo following the photos: "Don Holbrook (the author of Midge Magic) recently told me that his imitation of these larvae was the single most reliable and productive pattern of all of his "midge" imitations."

Thanks for the link. Guess I'm gonna need to put some time in with these on my line and from my own opinion, seems like almost nobody fishes imitations of them.

[quote author=Nymphmeister link=topic=1070.msg10425#msg10425 date=1206757832]
Slo-
Sorta like a traditional tie of the Miracle Nymph, maybe a Black Fly larva it what it really imitates, not a Midge.
[/quote]

Haven't seen the Miracle Nymph.

It certainly has its moments. Right time right place, its a very productive fly.

torrey- borger's pattern is in "designing trout flies" ... just his usual catchall midge pattern

Rego-
Tied with antron like his midge pupa?

Slo-
So you HAVE fished blackfly larva. Tell me more....

I HAVE NOT fished them or tied them in a long time. I first tried tying them after sampling a river by SCSU (near West Rock). I had great success (relatively speaking, I was quite the noob then) in mid-late spring fishing them on the Naugatuck, Wepawaug, and Saugatuck rivers. I will tie some up soon, I cant really remember how they found their way out of my box.

The pattern I tied, unlike the miracle nymph http://www.danica.com/flytier/ccraven/miracle_nymph.htm, has a black thread underbody and a slight swelling of the rear end (tied toward the eye after I realised they attach from that end). The black thread shows through and looks really cool when wet. I never tried tying it wothoot the black thread, I imagine the hook will show through the wet thread as well. I used no rib either.

Sounds nice & simple. I'll prob tie some up & maybe add a rib. You can even use the "white marker" trick on 6-8" of your tippet right above the fly. Might be deadly. What size did you tie, and on what type of hook?

What do you guys think of the black underbody with thinly stretched white latex wrapped maggot or cranefly style to try to get the transluncency?