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I broke out my new 10'5wt TFO---complete with Rio nymph line and a leader set-up a la Aaron. I used Climax 20#-10ft.--15#-5feet-indicator 10"--four feet 5X and 3 feet 5X dropper. Well I couldn't get the flies out of the water---it refused to roll cast---in fact total lack of being able to put out the rig into the water. I had to switch to a slow sinking leader and tippet w. dropper to cast successfully and actually catch a nice brownie. The RIO line has a built in indicator tip which functioned quite well. Basically were did I go wrong with the "Jasper" rig???? Any ideas???? 8) "Doc"
04-30-2009, 08:39 AM
AaronJasper
Re: Rig Problems???
You are not going to be able to roll cast that set up. It is impossible. I sent you an e mail in regards to this. You Shorten up the butt section. You will have to either tuck cast this set up of use a water loaded lob cast. This is not a technique that anyone can do. It takes a lot of work and skill to fish long leader sysytems. Work up to it. Don't start with 25 feet of leader. Also, the casting stoke is shown in multiple videos that we have on youtube. Search them and you will find them!
04-30-2009, 09:56 AM
nutman
Re: Rig Problems???
you really need to watch davey wottons wet fly ways or rick hefelas video on nymphing . Aaron will disagree here maybe but i dont feel that you need to complicate the leader here I would use 5x leader all the way through the leader . the lob cast is the way to go here ,leave the droppers about 6in long .the lob cast will keep the tangels down ,also the way you tie the rig up . There are also small beads out for tying on droppers which work great ! fish two flys at first you will have less problems .Roll casting is going to creat tangles in this type of fishing ,your first fly should be weighted or a point fly ,and the second ,something smaller .Wet fly ways gives alot of pointers on wet flys but if you think about the system it can be applied to nymphs as well ! good luck man
04-30-2009, 10:05 AM
AaronJasper
Re: Rig Problems???
Nutman,
With all due respect here he was not asking about wet fly leader set ups. He was asking about a French or Spanish leader set up. I have seen the DVD's that you are referencing and they do not cover the leader set up in the question.
04-30-2009, 10:31 AM
Flyfisher
Re: Rig Problems???
no reason to get all defensive you both made valid points.
04-30-2009, 10:41 AM
AaronJasper
Re: Rig Problems???
Well... He was telling the person to use 5x for the entire leader. 20 plus feet of 5x is not an option here. If the leader is short, less than 10 feet, it IS an option. You need something built into the leader for strike detection. I was not getting defensive here. I only wanted the person asking the question to receive the right answer that's all. If he was asking about short leader fishing Mike's answer is ok, but he was not. He was talking about something different.
04-30-2009, 10:52 AM
Flyfisher
Re: Rig Problems???
Both will catch fish and both have applications. The more options you have in your bag of fishing rigs the better off you are in the long run. I never got the impression of he ment to use 20' of 5X but then agian I know better than to try using that kind of rig. I never seen any reason to get defensive he was simply gving an idea that has worked well for him i am sure.
04-30-2009, 10:54 AM
kyle
Re: Rig Problems???
Doc,
If this is your first time euro-nymphing I would start with the short leader technique (Czech or Polish). As you get used to that you can move to the longer leader. When I first started I liked the short because it was easier to controll the leader and easier to cast. But as I practiced more and more I learned to like the long leader, between 20 and 25ft. I'm not by anymeans very good at this technique, but as Aaron said it takes practice to work up to the longer leader.
you'll get it, it just takes practice, practice and more practice
04-30-2009, 11:03 AM
TexasChris
Re: Rig Problems???
I don't think he's getting defensive. He's just trying to make sure blue dun's question is answered properly.
Yes, straight 5x works, but that's just not what he's asking.
It's like me asking how to fish nymphs and you telling me to use dry flies.
Yeah, they work, but that's not what I'm asking.
04-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Magnet
Re: Rig Problems???
Nutman, I took Davy's wet fly clinic this past week end and I have the DVD Wet Fly Ways. I must have missed the part where he said to use a weighted point fly. Now I'm confused. :-\
04-30-2009, 11:17 AM
kyle
Re: Rig Problems???
Like rubberlips said aaron's not getting defensive he's just trying to answer bluedun's question properly, yes wetflies are great but we're talking about nymph rigs here.
04-30-2009, 11:25 AM
Flyfisher
Re: Rig Problems???
Now i am cunfused I got try using strait straut 5x and not complicating it with long leaders and such. I understand he the question was refering to the Euro methods. Strait 5X with 2 droppers will work. using wetflies may have been a strange way of putting it but a 8' to 15' 5X set up will work aslong as you lob cast it. Its just another option to try it my not be the best option but you can catch fish doing it.
04-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Magnet
Re: Rig Problems???
I'm confused :-\
04-30-2009, 12:46 PM
Dr. BlueDun
Re: Rig Problems???
Oh My Goodness----I am not a stirrer by nature---but it seems I have stirred up a hornet's nest. At Ease!!! This is the old Gunny talking---Thanks Aaron I understand fully and I will shorten up things a bit---there was just too much stuff on that line for me right now. I do have the patience of a Franciscan monk and certainly didn't think I was going to change my name to Dubvroczech over nite. The technique did work for me but not with that set-up---I will grow into it and get better.. It was fish productive for me on streams with sleeping fish---thanks guys for your help and don't get yer shorts in a bunch over this---please. 8) "Doc"
04-30-2009, 10:20 PM
nutman
Re: Rig Problems???
i miss understood his question ,sorry guys .davy may not have said to use a weighted point fly ,that has nothing to do with this .i have to go back to the question for a moment .
First off magnet ,your point fly can be weighted ,we are using a nymph technique here ,atleast follow that much .Davy never does say to use a weighted point fly .I was trying to say if you used his system to set up the rig you would use a weighted point fly instead . ill remeber not to answer questions when i just get up .Man some people get so touchy on here
listening to what arron is saying he is right in that length of leader he would need something heavier to help turn the flys over in that length of leader .That is if you are over hand casting !
roll casting a leader that long would end up in knots and tangels so here is where the problems start on eastern streams they are bushy and small back hand cating can be a bitch there ,trust me i know i fished them for twenty years .With long leaders you have to postion yourself in the stream to cast up or down stream ,good luck casting a twenty foot leader straight out and across you just wount have room .Before you try something .Ill be back to this i have to unload a truck of cow dung inyto the garden .
04-30-2009, 10:43 PM
AaronJasper
Re: Rig Problems???
Nutman,
Its fine! I just wanted to make sure that he didn't get the right answer for the wrong question, if that makes sense. I knew the leader that he was referring to, that's why I was so stubborn on this one:)
05-01-2009, 09:55 AM
troutzilla37
Re: Rig Problems???
blue dun, maybe try building your own leaders with maxima. when fishing long leaders i find that the commercial leaders arent my preffered choice. maxima is stiffer an will help the flies roll over better. plus you can build a better taper than the commercial leaders have.
