I am considering these waders...Simms pricing is just a little too rich for this time in my life. Has anyone had any experience with Orvis breathables? These seem like a pretty good value.
Printable View
I am considering these waders...Simms pricing is just a little too rich for this time in my life. Has anyone had any experience with Orvis breathables? These seem like a pretty good value.
Well i am not sure how they are now but i went through three pairs in two years. that was about 8 years ago so i am sure they have improved them some by now. If you are on a budget I would look into Cabelas waders i know guys who have had better luck with them.
Go with l.l. bean waders.
If you have a problem with the orvis waders, tough luck.
If you have a problem with bean waders(i haven't had a problem yet), you can expect to be receiving a new pair in no time. Not even simms will do that for you. I've always had l.l. bean waders, and I always will.
Silver Label are very good waders. Three Guides I work with own the Silver Labels. They have no complaints. I need to buy a new pair of waders this year and right now it is a toss up for Silver Label or Pro Guide 3. I have Clear Waters right now that need to be retired because of barbed wire. I have never had any problem with my clear waters other than the abuse I put them through. The Silver Label is a step up from the clear waters. Orvis guarantees their waders.
http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=758&subject=744
Both me and my dad had orvis silver labels last year and they were terrible. They did not stand up to one whole season, I basically threw my money away on this one. So I bought a pair of
simms G4 pros and they are the greatest waders out there as far as durability and comfortability, the only downside is like you said, they are expensive.
Although I have not had any experience with the new silver label waders I still would not reccommend them based on my previous experiences. But who knows they might be a great wader?
-kyle
thanks guys...i guess ill not go for the orvis...i had no idea they had so many problems.
vtflyfishing- I have had two friends try to get their fairly new orvis waders fixed by the orvis company only to be turned away and told that the waders were leaking due to improper care. One had a leak in the crotch seams, the other had a leak at the stocking foot. I've read reviews on different websites where some guys get them repaired at no cost by orvis, but i've also read a lot of reviews where orvis wouldn't fix their waders. I've also read more than a few reviews complaining about the quality. I wonder if there is some quality control issues over there.
Ripnlips- I don't know anyone that has had any issues with Orvis waders. The guide service I work for uses Orvis waders and they have not had any issues with their waders besides abuse.
Now you know of kyle and flyfisher. ;D
I Will admit i fish hard and when the season is in full swing I will be at the water for 2 or three month strait everday. My biggest problem is I had one pair leak out of the box. Another pair lasted about 2 months. I did get two years out of the third pair. Both repairs were replaced by orvis but after having 2 out of three go bad i gave up on them. My new waders will either be LL.Bean or Simms.
it is super hard to justify the cost of simms waders ,but the first year any problem they are repaired free!!! you can send them in at the end of that year and have them looked at .that is worth the cost alone ,after that year you can send them in and they will fix them for a fee which is supposed to be small ,like 50 bucks .So they have some backing .I know a guy who had eight year old waders and sent them in and they re sealed them completly for 50 dallors .So it is an investment in dry feet and some security .Ive replaced three pairs of different breatable waders ,which in the long run cost me the same as a pair of g3. I still think simms is out of there minds charging 700 dallors for the other waders they sell . What is super nice is to go back to the car after fishing and be dry!!!!! slip off waders put shoes on go home .No wet feet ;D So maybe save to get a pair ,i waited and have had wet feet so im in heaven now And God said let there we light and water and a pair of waders that dont leak ,praise the God and Baby Jesus !!!! :o
orvis waders are just not worth it. You might get one season out of a $250 pair of waders but you'll have to replace them next season. After two seasons you spent what it would cost for a pair of G4's. I have freinds that have had a pair of simms for 10 years and they still use them as a backup to their new ones. It's worth it to get the simms, buy the best it can only hurt you once ;)
Another point to make is that I fish very hard in the spring,summer, and fall so I put a lot of wear on my gear. So factor that into your decision because not every body fishes from 6a.m. to 9:30 p.m. 5 days a week.
-kyle
Orvis waders are made in China with a breathable non Gore-Tex membrane. Simms waders are made in Montana using American labor and Gore-Tex membranes. So which one do you think will hold up better? It's no contest, Simms hands down. Gore patented their membranes and no other membrane is as breathable or durable. Yes, they are more expensive than the other crappy ones out there. Gore is very picky about who they partner up with, and Simms is one of the very few companies that uses a Gore membrane in their waders. They have been making breathable waders longer than anyone- guides on the Big Horn River were just finishing field testing them when I went out there the 1st time, 18 years ago.
I've been involved in the retail end of fly fishing for well over 20 years, and have worked in 2 fly shops that sold a variety of different breathable waders. No other brand is even close to Simms in durability & performance. We stopped carrying other brands because almost all the others suck, and we end up constantly sending them back for repair or replacement to the manufacturer- that is frustrating & time consuming for both the customer & me. All waders leak eventually, Simms just take the longest to get to that point. I cannot tell you how many pairs of Simms wader Orvis has sold for me- customers come in completely frustrated with all the wader failures & wet feet they had with Orvis and buy the Simms. Often I've heard them say that Orvis replaced their waders 3 and even 4 times in a year- great customer service, but a bad product. My friend operates a fly shop right across the street from and Orvis dealer, and he said the number of people he sees walk into the Orvis store carrying a pair of leaky waders is unbelievable. And while LL Bean has put out a decent wader, it is not cheap, I believe it's made overseas, and often they are out of stock on your size- so even though they will replace it, what good does that do you when there are none available for months and it's fishing season?
The first repair with Simms is no charge, and then they look at it on a case by case basis after that. Often they do it for free, and if not it's usually at a reasonable charge. I've seen them replace for free waders I considered to be worn out from normal wear & tear over the years. And last I knew, they would replace the neoprene feet with new ones for $50, pretty darn reasonable, and it often gets you an extra season or two if the feet go on you.
Is the initial cost of purchase higher with Simms? In many cases yes, but if they last you longer than they may end up being the better bargain. Not to mention it's far less frustrating not having to constantly send them in for repairs like the other brands, or have them leak on you during a vacation or trip. Nobody in the industry does a better job on the seams (a common failure point in waders), and nobody has as much experience. Buy quality. Remember too, that they are also a superior product- the most breathable, the most durable, and the most comfortable. It is a pleasure to fish in them, they are so well designed & fit perfectly.
Remember that Simms uses American labor to make their waders- this both helps to support our economy, as well as makes it impossible for Simms to sell the product for cheap. I've heard some people grouse that Simms often repairs rather than replaces their waders, while Orvis, Patagonia and others usually replace them. Remember that Orvis, Patagonia and most others have their waders made in China or elsewhere overseas. Because of this, they often replace their waders rather than repair them because it costs less- it's cheaper to replace a pair of waders that they had made for $10-20 and sold for $200 (or much more), rather than pay American labor to fix them, it's simple economics. Simms has quite a bit more $ invested in their product, both because of superior, more expensive materials, and also due to using American labor, so they will repair them if it's feasible. They do replace them where necessary, I've often seen them do that.
Their current least expensive Gore-Tex model in 2009 is the Headwater, it is $299.95, and it's an excellent product. The next logical step up is the G3 at $399.95, they actually dropped the price $50 on it over a year ago due to an improvement in the Gore membrane in terms of cost & ease of working with it (and it's also a more breathable membrane, ligher, and more durable). This wader benefits from "trickle down" technology from the uber expensive G4 ($699.95!). From about mid-thigh down it's the same wader, just without the waterproof zipper and all the bells & whistle up top. Almost every single one of my friends is using the G3, it's your best value in a higher-end wader, and it's well worth the $400 if you are a serious fisherman and/or fish a lot. Cannot say enough good things about it. Take a look on the magazine covers and you will almost always see an angler in Simms waders, and the same is true of most pictures of guides. For Alaskan guides, it's almost like a standard uniform.
Highly recommend Redington Waders...I have had a pair of their breathables for 2 years now...about 100 days on the water total and have been very pleased with comfort and durability. I tend to hike into some nasty places chasing brookies and these waders have held up very well.
Prior to this I had a pair of Dan Baileys that lasted a long time as well....
food for thought.
The second best wader I would reccommend is Dan Baily. They are inexpensive and preform great, my dad has a pair and is very pleased. If you're from CT dave at Classic and Custom fly shop sells them.
-kyle
I've never had a pair of bailey waders, I have however had a pair of their boots. The boots lasted me a half season. Total crap. I will never buy a baileys product again.
LL bean may be made in china, but their waders really stand the test of time. Nymphmeister is right though, sometimes it's hard to get a pair in your size and they always seem to be back ordered. There's a reason their waders are always back ordered, it's easy to sell a great product.
The new bean waders are no longer being made with gore-tex, but from the sounds of the design, they will be just as good, if not better than their older gore-tex line of waders. If you haven't heard about these, maybe give them a look. They have reduced all seams in the waders by 50%.
I have the bean gore-tex waders and would not hesitate to recommend these to anyone. I do however understand the point about American made products, and now more than ever, things like that should be considered. Bean has just been too good to me for too long for me to even consider switching at this point.
You had baily wading boots? I've never tried anything except the waders ( now I know I won't try the boots)
-kyle
Just to jump in the fray - Orvis are no good. I'm not certain there is anything redemptive about Orvis, and this is coming from a guy who first learned how to flyfish at Orvis at age 10. For a while, the company had a mythical fly-fishing aura to me, but too many bad experiences, culminating in poor wader service was the last straw. I wrote about my customer service experience elsewhere, but I can't say enough for patagucci. I had a pair of their waders that I bought on closeout in '99, used as my moderately warm weather waders for close to ten years, had some mice chew through them, sent them back and got a gift card in excess of 300 in return. That is customer service (it may explain why their stuff is so expensive).
Patagonia looks to be another great wader too, but I have never had any experience with them.
-kyle
kyle- Yeah, I bought a pair last year. The fit was great, and they were very comfortable. I could go all day fishing, wading, and hiking in them and my feet would feel great. That's what I continued to do for about 6 months until the things literally fell apart.
They only lasted 6 months? for the money they cost I'd be pretty disappointed, did they send you a new pair?
-kyle
I never called to complain. I just went out and bought a different brand.
Well judging by what jovalle said you should have, it sounds like they have great service and probably would have repaired your old ones or given you new waders.
-kyle
I was talking about the bailey wading boots.
You should contact Bailey's - I've spoken a bunch to John Bailey and he's a pretty decent guy. I think their stuff is supposed to be economical, but I can't imagine they'd put their name on complete crap.
Oh my bad I thought you were talking about patagonia waders because you came in right after my post about patagonia waders and didn't specify what you were talking about, boy do I feel like an idiot lol
And jovalle, they are economical, they are very reasonably priced. I love bailys and think they are great waders, ripin does not but everybody is entitled to their opinion.
-kyle
The waders could be great for all I know. I only have experience with their boots.
Many of the companies mentioned in this thread have excellent customer service, LL Bean is fantastic in that regard, and Patagonia is very good. I'm surprised to hear bad things about the Orvis customer service, because while I think many of their products are complete crap, I've always thought their customer service was above average.
I guess the point I was trying to make before is that if the product is well made, you don't have to worry about customer service so much. And in the long run, quality products often cost less if you factor in how much longer they last. Also it is a pleasure to use a great product, it adds to your enjoyment & comfort. Much frustration is also saved by products that don't constantly fail on you. It's great that some companies totally stand behind their product, but when its poorly made or uses sub par materials, it WILL fail on you when you least want it to.
Personally, I'd rather conserve on my rods and fish TFO's instead of my Sages (and I do love Sage) if that's what I needed to do to put myself in Simms waders. I spend too much time in waders to be uncomfortable or frustrated by them. Even if I didn't work in a fly shop, I would still do what I had to do to pony up the $ to get them. That's my 2 cents, I'll shut up now. :P
I've also had problems with Orvis waders, the Silver Labels specifically. The first pair lasted about 3 months before they started leaking at the seams. I sent those back for repair, and was pleasantly surprised to get a brand new pair a week later. However, the new pair started leaking at the seams after about two months. I haven't gotten around to sending them back, so I am disappointed to hear that Orvis may have started being stricter about warranty issues. I will send them back, just to have a back-up pair. I replaced them a little over a year ago with a pair of Simms G3's and could not be happier; expensive, yes, but they are much better made, the material feels considerably more durable than the Silver Labels, and yet is just as breathable, if not more so. Plus, no leaks!
By the way, I was told that leaking at the seams could be caused by leaving your waders in the car during hot weather; the heat can weaken the glue used on the taped seams. After hearing that I was very careful with the second pair of Silver Labels not to expose them to those kind of conditions, and yet they started leaking after only two months.
As for L.L. Bean, my first pair of breathable waders were from them (I think they were called the West Branch?), and they were extremely durable, though not as comfortable in hot weather as the Simms are. They lasted about three and a half years, and I average about 50 days a year on the water, plus, I am the type that will plunge through pricker bushes (can't wait to get to the water!).
Steve
Everyone has their own opinion on waders that much is clear just by reading all this. Also everyones situation is differnt. For me if I spent $400 dollars on a pair of waders they better have trout attractant built in and be bullet proof. I do understand that two pairs of crap $200 waders are worthless compared to one pair of $400 waders. Right now I have a pair of super cheap columbia waders and they are junk they are mostly made of wader patch now and I only got them this spring. I have on order from LL Bean a pair of rapid river waders they look like they are going to be really nice but the bad is that I've had them on order for a few weeks now and I'm not going to get them until the begining of next month. I hope its worth the wait. Long story short everyone prefers differnt things for differnt reasons. If something works for you don't worry about what everyone else says just use it.
torrey,
orvis does have good customer service, I'll give them that. When I first bought my orvis waders they were the wrong size so I took them to the store in avon and they gave me a new pair, and when my dad's waders seam broke they gave him a new pair no questions asked. But they need that good service to back up their products up because they are total crap.
With the exception of some of their reels.
-kyle
Kyle,
They also make some great rods. ;)
VT,
I will tell you, that Helios is un-real. I can't believe how light it is!
VT,
I've only fished of their new rods once, the helios and I didn't really care for it, it's not the craftsmanship just the feel and my personal preference. I do however love the old orvis rods, two of my favorite graphite rods are my 7'6" 1970's superfine 3wt and my 8' rocky mountain 5wt. I also like the ole zephyrs. But as far as reels go the old C.F.O is (in my opinion) one of the greatest reels of all time, and my dad will stand by his battenkill mid arbors for the rest of his life.
-kyle
I have a pair of the Orvis Guide waders and have worn them for some 60+ days of fishing/year for a few years now---without any problems. My son also bought the same and had his first pair leak, the local dealer in Downingtown replaced them without so much as a peep. His waders are also in great condition and he also spends a lot of days on the stream as well. So much for the Orvis waders in my experience. Simms is a great set of waders and probably would be my next pair, God willing. As for the relative expense, I generally chalk it off as being amortized over so many years---it's only money and your sojourn here on this crazy-a$$ planet is so short for only one try, go for it---before the government takes it away from you whilst being stimulated. Frankly at 78 I just appreciate looking at and talking with a beautiful woman for stimulation---to hell with the government. :o
Well I got the Orvis waders...money was a factor but not the only one. I have had excellent customer service from Orvis in the past (infrequent but once every 3 yrs or so). I liked the fabric and the fit and the stowable upper...like the G3 convertible.
I have been on the water 4 solid days with these and they are just fine.
I was going to get the G3's but I did have a poor experience with their service dept. I had a 3 yr old guide vest and a zipper blew out...not abused or anything just fell out. I sent it in to get the zipper replaced and they offered a 40% discount on a new vest. No way...its just like they are selling a new vest to a dealer I would rather spend the money with the dealer and have him make some $$..I dont think 3 seasons should be the product life of a $129 vest so I told them to fix it or return it...new guide vest are kind of cheaply made compared to mine yet still the same price.
Anyways so far so good with the new waders. I will report back with a longer term test report this summer or fall.
I'm going to post this under a couple of different headings:
Some people stated in another heading that Simm's have leaked right out of the box and they sent them back and they have been fine since. I don't want to spend $400 on waders and have them leak right away no matter how good the return policy.
My [Orvis Endura] neoprene stockingfeet toes started to leak recently because of wear from the hard interiors of the shoes I suspect, and the neoprene is generally beginning to wear thin after 4 years intense usage. Do you get 4 years hard use out of your Simms of Beans?
I went cheap the first year because I didn't know what to buy, but will probably go for a more expensive stockingfoot waders or at least better shoes this time. The upper part of the Enduras haven't given me any problems and I wear them all year round. I like the light GoreTex fabrics. I'll seriously consider Simms or even LL Bean, but I may just stay with the Orvis Enduras.
Longer Term Report:
Had the 09 Silver labels for the season. Overall impression:very positive. My first pair worked just great until late spring, there was an incident with a full can of paint that didnt have the lid tightly sealed, one of the small people in the house I suspect. I wore that pair a dozen times. very nice fabric, no leaks, no tears etc. My in-laws replaced them because he was apparently the painter in violation. My second pair are just as good. I have 27 fishing days on them and they are just great. The fit is better than the Simms for my body type. The Orvis store manager in Denver said the number one thing about waders is to have them fit properly and to periodically clean them so the finish doesnt break down as quickly. so I have 39 full days on them (and another 30 on an old but leaky pair of Simms)and quite frankly for the $ they are quite good. I can vouch for them...I would say they are recommended.
Clean em? I have Cheddar Fry residue all over my waders!!Im on my third pair of baileys but im trying to take better care of the new ones..
clean the grass stains/mud/dirt..i dont do much of that either but when i get cheddar fry residue on mine I dip my finger in the water, swipe it and take a lick...