Joe Humpheries Method

I am curious I have been using this method with the tuck cast and all for the last 15 years with awesome success. I see many of you are big on teh czech nymphing and i agree it works espically in faster water. Just wanted to see what you all thought i am sold on the Humpheries/Harvey method and see no reason to change.

We all agree it is best to possess a variety of skills, approaches and tactics. We all use the Humphrey's methods too, when the conditions warrant.

The Humpheries method with the Harvey Tuck Cast to pocket water does not utilize indicators to detect the strike,,,,, Joe pulls the fly downstream to maintain contact for feel of the strike. This is a specialized cast and works well in fast water with structure and pocket water.

I attended a two day seminar with Joe and Ed Schenk years ago in PA. Joe would store his lead split shot in his cheek and squeeze on the shot to the leader with his teeth.

Regards,
FK

I know the method well!  I really am not a big fan of indicators and i have not used them in many years.  No need i use a stren hi vis line on my hand tied leaders.  I am not a big fan of the lead in the cheeks part.

Haha funny! That's how I would carry them around! The best free dispenser that one can find.

I often wounder if that is why I forget things .Ive been biting on lead since I started fishing . Then one day I heard it causers brain damage and I know I have some of that ;D

The humphries methods are some of the best , flyfisher sounds like you have incorperated czech tech into your style with the yellow stren . I caught fish this spring using his methods .I have yet to use the czech nymph style due .to not having time because i had to move this summer . Im sure it works though Aaron raved about it this spring .Swiping the river ,I think he said .

I use the same nymphing techniques that Joe has taught me with good success too. I haven't tried the European methods but they do have their merits too. I would say fish the way your comfortable and accustomed too b/c thats what you're confident with which is hugh mentally when it comes to the psychological aspect of the game.

His level line system works good in deep water, fast or if it's windy out. Although not quite the same as the European it's purpose is to reduce as much drag as possible. He claims the Eurpoeans took his method and modified it. I'm not sure if that's an entirely true statement but to his defense he has been nymphing with a thin diameter line for decades--1st with mono in the late 40's and much later the thin line Cortland called deep nymph floater that Leon Chandler made at his request. I have an out of production video of him using flat mono out west that dates back to the mid/late 80's which was the same time period he fished for the USA team.

No doubt Joe Humphries was ahead of his time, as was George Harvey. Even Aaron the naysayer was impressed when he watched Joe fish in his nymphing DVD.

There are many similiarities between the way Joe fishes & Euro style nymphing. Both use a tight line to detect strikes w/no floating indicator, primarily short casts, and a pair of weighted nymphs on droppers. Where they diverge is that the Europeans use colored line (mono or fly line backing) for a "sighter"/strike detector in their leader, sometimes 3 weighted flies to get down (whereas Joe uses 2 and adds split shot when necessary), 10 foot or longer rods (last I knew Joe mostly used a 9 footer, although he mentions using longer rods on occasion), and a leader with a relatively long, level fluoro tippet (from the sighter down) to sink the flies & cut thru the water with a minimum of drag.

I would say the Euro style is a more "tweaked" version of the way Joe fishes, with some subtle yet important improvements. The colored line in the leader is a huge help in detecting strikes. Great Lakes Steelheaders have been using thin running lines for a long time. I got into Steelheading 23 years ago, and friends of mine had already been using that technique for a while. Very effective in fast/deep water where any other traditional FF techniques would fail. Not "fly fishing" by some people's definition, but who cares? The long tippet section really helps get your flies down, and the 10 foot or longer rods are a big help in getting a drag free float, lengthening the drift, setting the hook, cushioning the tippet & playing the fish.

I would say choosing between humphreys style and "euro" nymphing is personal preference. I have fished with Joe and he smashes fish his way and i have also fished against europeans and they farm them out as well. Who's technique is better? Hard to answer that question. Combining things you like some both is what i would call ideal.

I would tend to agree with Troutzilla here. What works for one might not work for another. Every single technique is varied by the fishermen dooing it. Some people don't use fly line at all, mainly long leader systems, where Joe would use some fly line. However, if you are not catching fish there IS a problem with you method of angling that needs fixing. I was extremely impressed with Joe's fishing.

I've met joe and seen his presentation on nymphing ,it was so informative ,in just an hour of time .His method relys on casting technique .He was very specific about dropping your elbow ,and also snapping your wrist .
I feel this takes alot of practice ,to become good at ,I think he has it down ,so that is why he is one of the best .He was taught by the old school ,and when I say he was taught by the old school I mean old school . Im not sure who george harvey was taught by .The techniques discribed though have alot to do with old school grease line tecniques .Which are from across the pond !
The euro style is an old form ,with a new twist .Long rods were used long before short rods . Fiberglass was introduced after world war two ,bamboo ( the ultimate fiber ) was around long before that .
Line control played a big part back in the days of old ,due to the fact they were not nylon lines .
To mend "old school line you needed longer rods . There was at one time a man named A.H.E. woods who cast twelve foot rods for steelhead and salmon (single hand )
The euro method with the the longer rod just makes it easier to place your cast .Then add in some of Joes techniques to that cause you most certainly can .The length of the rod could limit you at times ,every rod has it's advantages and disadvantages . Use what you have to your advantage .Always look for something new ,you might come up with something ,then in forty years they can name it after you .

Catching fish is not a problem. I now personally i perfer Humpheries method due to the types of water that i fish. In general I am not aboe to get close enough to use Czech Style nymphing and a lot of teh smaller streams that i fish would make a rod longer than 9' unmanagable. I will admit i do use some modified techniques that i kind came up with on my own and that is what is fun. I love trout fishing there are endless ways to be successful.

While Polish & Czech style are both traditionally up close techniques, Euro style nymphing also uses leaders in the 15-30' range that allow you to stay back from the fish, ala the Spanish & French. Even with a classic Polish or Czech set-up, you can still throw a moderately long cast and watch you line tip when necessary. It's easy to get locked into only executing a technique one way, when being versatile will net you a lot more trout at the day's end. As mentioned by others in this thread, I also think that taking what you like from various techniques & mixing it all up in your own style is the best in the end.

The best anglers that I know of do a number of things:

They are very profiecient in many different techniques ie strike indicator nymphing, long and short line Euro tecnhiques, wet flies, and streamers

They assess the conditions.

They apply the right technique or techniques to the situation and make it work.

They do not try to make something work that is not right for the prevailing conditions. This does hold true for means of practicing a certain technique.

DO NOT GET WRAPPED UP IN TRYING TO FISH ONE TECHNIQUE IN ALL SITUATIONS! Time and time again this has been proven to be the wrong aproach. I believe that an anglers major lack of success can be attributed to the right technique at the wrong time.

For example, dry fly fishing can be a great technique... during a hatch. However, the guy going to Church Pool on the Farmington in the winter is going to get outfished 10 to 1 by a very good nympher. The problem with this comes when the angler who caught close to nothing on the dries tries to downplay the other angler's success by saying ..."he was only fishing nymphs" and not looking at his own stupid decision making.

Back to Joe... if you watch his video HE FISHES THOSE NYMPHS IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS BASED UPON THE SITUATION THAT IS GIVEN TO HIM. That is what makes him and the techniques good. He is adaptable.

Here is an interesting "rough" statistical breakdown of what percentage of time each method works best (from Gary LaFontaine's research, 1st printed in his book "Challenge of the Trout"):

1. Wet Fly (standard)- 15%
2. Pupa (Caddis)- 15%
3. Streamer- 5%
4. Dry Fly (searching the water)- 5%
5. Dry Fly (casting to risers)- 15%
6. Nymph (deep)- 30%
7. Nymph (pre-hatch)- 15%

Further breakdown of these categories adds up to the following totals, in order of effectiveness:
-Dead-drift sunk patterns (parts of 1-2-3-6-7)- 45%
-Active presentations of sunk patterns (parts of 1-2-3-6-7)- 35%
-Surface patterns (parts of 4-5)- 20%

Some interesting quick conclusions based on this:
-Every method has it's moments of superiority
-Nymphing is the single most effective category, being the best tactic almost 50% of the time
-Subsurface presentations are best 80% of the time
-Wet flies are still fish catchers, and at moments will outproduce all other flies
-Dry flies are at their most effective during a hatch
-Streamers & blind-fished dries have the smallest windows of superiority, at 5% each
-The most effective anglers need to be proficient in a variety of techniques in order to have consistent success in a variety of conditions, and they need to know when to use each technique
-Overall, dead-drift tactics are more effective than active presentations, but each have their moments

It's easy to draw some inaccurate conclusions based on this data if you aren't careful. For example, while streamers may be the best fish catchers only 5% of the time, making some think that they are a waste of time, but properly fished they account for the largest fly caught trout. And when you are on water where you are unsure of the trout's whereabouts, or fishing broad expanses where the fish could be anywhere, a smaller streamer can be a quick locator of fish as the method allows fast coverage of large amounts of water. Small streamers catch more trout, but bigger ones typically catch the biggest trout. High, dirty water can also make a streamer the best fly to use sometimes, being that trout are primarily sight feeders and have a hard time spotting other flies under those conditions.

These statistics also don't take into account the time of year. I believe they were mostly collected in the Spring thru Fall period, and we are now moving into Winter or Winter-type conditions, making #6, the deep nymph dead-drifted, by far the most productive method for about the next 4 months. During prime hatch time, say May-June in the Northeast, dries may be the best more than 15% of the time. And even though the window of time they are the best might only be an hour or two in the evening, during that short time period if you have the correct fly & presentation, you can rack up many, many trout, possibly more than in an entire day of nymphing. Food for thought.

Great Info and i appreciate it! I am sure all of us many different techniques! I know personaly i still dont understand the guys that i see that are out there casting dryflies to know end and then they complain that there are no trout left. This is very common in the Catch and Release are in my home town. There is tons of fish in this stretch of stream year round and with the right technique you can almost always catch your share if you are willing to be flexable. Great info guys i am really enjoying your message board!

While I can understand the appeal of dry flies, with the visible takes & pretty casting, I think the reason many don't nymph or choose to make fun of it is because they don't know how to do it effectively. I used to be a dry fly & Woolly Bugger guy until I took the time (2 full seasons in my mid 20's, and still learning to this day) to truly learn how to nymph.

When I used to guide a lot, I converted many a dry fly guy to nymphing. Many clients would say they don't like to nymph, and when pressed would admit they rarely did well with the technique and had no confidence in it. Amazing how nymphing up a few bigger trout on the end of their line made a quick convert of them! Lol.

I find it funny to cause Ive caught so many trout on nymphs ,My one friend didn't think id catch a fish on a nymph id tied .he was throwing a spinner . I saw a trout shoot under a boulder ,i just cast up stream and watched the nymph float by as the trout came out and hammered it . My friend couldnt believe it . I just smiled .

Yeah really all that it takes to become a nymphing Addict is catching a few trout doing it. The majority of the trouts diet is underwater! I love to fish dries but i like to catch fish!!

;) One has to realize that fishing the dry fly is what all relative newcomers seem to feel is de rigeur, i.e. the only way to go. Admittedly if you read a lot of the older f/f books it seems that that's all that is described. If you also fall into the "Catskill" reveries you will think that if you don't fish a dry you will be ousted by the gods of the Willowemoc or Beaverkill. Many regard these places as sacred waters, and so they are, are committing a mortal sin :o I began fishing wet flies and streamers, as a 12 year old, because I couldn't tie a dry to save my life. Then I started reading many more modern books re: midges, nymphs and began tying those to fish with. Yes I have learned to tie reasonably good Catskill style dries in the ensuing 60 years, and use them on occasion of good rises and hatches. But, I must say that having had many successful outings fishing these rivers and the West Branch with nymphs has tilted me way over to the nymph side. Back a few years ago when the "orvis crowd" entered the f/f ring their vocabularies prattled continuously about dry flies. But, nothing was more disillusioning to these sycophants when their much heralded dry flies didn't get them fish---hence their disillusionment and successive bitterness. Oh well too much said whilst preaching to the choir. At least they became fly fisherman for a while. 8)

de rigeur ???

Is that French?

I thought your de rigeur was your ass.

;D Mai Non monsieur---la derriere is your ass sir. ::)

I once knew a man from penington village ,who said to become a real good fly fishermen you had to be a good nymph fishermen . For me this includes nymphs and wets and even spey flies .
Speys are fished both top and bottom and really throw a change into the mix .
Chezch ,nymphing is a new style ,here in the states ,just something else to throw into the mix ,on those days when you aren't getting a bite .
Ive jumped a level here and started learning about skating a fly for steelhead .It could be a tube are a spey or even a small atlantic salmon pattern .
I have set goals to catch fish on a greased line ,on a classic pattern ,tied by me ! Where this started for me was nymph fishing .
It was a progression,if i left myself to just one way of fishing ,id only catch fish part of the time .It is the experience of being out there ,learning what tempature is best for what fly to use .That could include the air and water tempature ,it is a vast game .Most guys like the easy route and fish a glo bug .yeah you'll catch more fish .I ask are you a good fishermen doing that? I think not ,in my opinon a fish caught on a true fly that was fished and tied by the person fishing makes you a true fishermen .You have accepted the challenge to learn ,to explore and to lose .With a win that may or may not come .This is why I fly fish ,it isnt the catching all the time but more the experience . Ill throw spinners when im old and tired till then ill chase them on a tippet with a hook and some thread tied to it in everyway I can ! tight lines

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