New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
As of October 1, new regs are in effect concerning New York's Salmon River. Now, in the fly areas (upper and lower), "chuck 'n duck" methods are outlawed. That is to say, that no supplementary weight can be added to propel the head of the fly line or leader. Lots of questions have been raised as to the degree of this law, but in essence it comes down to this: in the fly fishing areas, fly fish ethically (using the natural weight of the fly line to propel your cast) and you'll have no problem. This was made in effect to get rid of snagging and foulhooking. No more slinkies and cannon-ball splitshot! ! !
Weighted flies will be paramount for fishing these areas from now onward. After all the discussions in prior posts about Czech nymphing etc, a lot of these discussions have centered around the key concept, being weighted flies.
I think this will discourage an enormous percentage of anglers from fishing these two great sections of the river. For those of you who have witnessed "Salmon Season" at the Town Pool, or Trestle, you know how much of that "technique" is employed.
As Loren posted last season (and please correct me if I'm wrong), to fish the SR effectively and efficiently, you don't need a whole lot of weight at all. Now, with the addition of all the information we have about weighting our flies from all the experts on this site, we can really take advantage of the fly zones, while knowing that the fish aren't being terrorized by massive spitshop and bags of lead being ripped by them.
BTW, there's a hilarious video on youtube of the "Trestle Pool" from last weekend, where there were OVER 100 people in an area that should probably only capacitate 4-6 fishermen on each side of the river! You gotta see it, it's a real clown show! ! ! I can't even imagine how much lead and splitshot was snagged on the bottom that day. . .probably in the 50-100 lb. range! YIKES!
This video makes the Farmington's Church Pool on a hot July evening look like a Dead Zone!
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
I am glad they finaly made some changes in the FZ on the Salmon river. I never could understand why someone with a fly rod could rig up the same as someone on the other side of the bridge and think he was fly fishing. I dont have any thing against the way the guy on the other side of the bridge is fishing after all it might even be me. But if you are going to have a rule that states traditioal fly fishing gear than one should be fishing accordingly. MHO
As for Trestle pool I think that vidio was taken the weekend I was there with my wife. We stood on the bank and wached for about 15 minutes and the vidio does no justice to how it realy was that weekend. there were alot more people than what the vidio showes. and alot of them were drunk. At one point I thought we would see a good fight but when the guy kept falling in the river and running his mouth every one just tried to egnore him. But there were a few guys trying to see how much he would take before he started swinging.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
I think another method may be to use a sinking line (I think Teeny makes a super fast sinking head). I assume that would be legal?
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
I am just happy that they didn't outlaw split shot totally. That would be bad for the people who use it more sparingly than others ;D
Heavy sinking tips will be the next snagging tool watch. A teeny chuck and duck line with a 10-15 foot leader. Even if you change the rules the foul players will adapt!!! ::)
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
anyone know how deep the cemetary pool is? i'm pretty sure there will parts you won't be able to fish effectively with these new rules, especially in the typical winter flows.
i much would have preferred that they had taken the $ it took to install new regs and put them towards enforcement. i have never seen anyone even checked up there in about 15 days of fishing. i get the feeling they really don't care what goes on.-paul
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
Every time they "raise the bar", people will always figure out a way to fish unethically up there. But remember, the person fishing determines the ethical nature of the fishing, not the technique itself.
As Aaron mentioned, Teeny Chuck 'n Duck lines will now be popular, as well as regular 24' head Teeny type lines. If they are truly going to try to promote ethical fishing, they should put a relatively short length limit on leaders used with sinking lines/leaders/sink-tips or people will line/snag the snot out of fish using sinking lines and long leaders. 4' should be the max for that.
I assume a strike indicator with a couple 2-3 BB shot would still be legal??? That is a "castable" rig in my book. That combined with a super long, relatively light tippet, fished on a long drift with some proper mending should get you down in most spots. But not all. I guess the poor Steelhead will finally get some "sanctuary water". Poor bastards.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
I thought that all weight (including Split shot) is outlawed? Can some clarify the law?
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
You can use split shot but the split shot can not be used to propel the line. There is a gray area here because you can propel large amounts of weight with a spey rod and still look like you are casting it. I would guess just don't caight using a ruinning line and a slinky.
If you nymph with a strike indicator and split shot you will be ok.
I do agree that this is very undefined.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
There's definitely a gray area, to say the least. I'm sure many are trying to plot how to overcome this law.
From my understanding, as Aaron and Torrey said, you can use splitshot, as a means to get your line down to the zone, but not to propel. The problem, as said by Aaron, is the spey rod situation. The head of a spey line is so heavy that is could easily cast (spey, rollcast, or other) at least the weight of a heavy slinky, if not more. In fact, just to prove this, a few weeks ago down river I witnessed a fishmerman fishing a double-handed rod (spey) with a rig that resembled a centerpin rig. They had 3-4' leader lined with dust shot after a swivel, then had a streamer. That rig had many "split shot", and he still made normal casts (although it looked ridiculous).
From reports, I've heard that the DEC is trying to be as active as possible. There are many "rogue DED officers" that are in everyday fishing attire actually fishing. Who knows, maybe you've fished right beside one of them while he/she has been inspecting your fishing rig. ;)
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
Just fish..as long as you are doing that no one will/should bother you. If you would not do it on the Farmington then don't do it on the SR.
Or (better yet) just don't fish the fly zones. There are 11 miles of much better water downstream.
Technically: you need at least 20 feet of actual tapered fly line and it must be the factor that loads the cast and propels the line. 15 feet of leader max. You may use split shot within 48" of the fly as long as it does not then propel the cast. No idea how they might interpret fishing weighted nymphs..don't care since I do not fish the zoos. Give me fresh unadulterated steelhead that act as they should. I can only imagine what "creative" rigs will get employed up there this year.
Two of us fought for either shutting down the zone or going 100% no weight aside from the fly line. It is great water for fishing on the swing and dangle...but to get players there guys need fish that are not getting lead poisoning.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
[quote author=LorenWilliams link=topic=2078.msg14714#msg14714 date=1225130200]
Just fish..as long as you are doing that no one will/should bother you. If you would not do it on the Farmington then don't do it on the SR. [/quote]
This I do agree with. If you do not use four pounds of weight and wing it out at the Farmington then don't do it there. This is regardless of whether or not you are fishing in the fly zones or not. Also, I don't know anywhere you fish for trout with four foot leaders either.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
Spoke with Fran Verdoliva today (he's the Salmon River area coordinator for the NY DEC), and he said 99% of anglers are obeying the new regs in the FF areas there. The few that aren't are mostly people that aren't really fly fishermen, but rather are snaggers who want to fish in the fly zones, and are bitching about not being able to use running lines & super heavy weights/slinkies. Fran has used all methods over the years, including spinning, spey, indicator, running lines & centerpinning, and he said he had nothing personally against running lines, but that it had gotten out of hand over the years in the 2 FF areas and some people were really abusing the method rather than using it as a legitimate rig. He also said the new regs seem to be attracting a lot of people there who never fished it before. Split shot & indicator rigs are allowed and currently popular in the FF areas, and as long as you can cast it with the LINE propelling your rigs rather than vice versa, you will be fine. At present, they are basically making a daily presence in the FF zones & educating anglers as necessary.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
After my recent trip, I'm happy to report that everyone I saw in the fly area appeared to be complying with the new regs, and nobody was complaining. And fish were being caught! I was afraid a "castable" amount of weight wouldn't allow me to get my fly down to the fish, but my fears were unfounded and I hooked plenty of fish, never using more than one Dinsmore SSG shot- a weight I can both overhead & roll cast, making it quite legal. It seems like the new regs have weeded out the jerks and are attracting a better class of fisherman. Never thought I'd see this day up there! And combined with the vastly improved runs of Steelhead & Browns, I'm quite optimistic about the future of the fishery. ;D
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
FYI- checked the weight in grams of the tin Dinsmore SSG shot, and they are 1.6 grams, which is equal to 4 tin BB shot at .4 grams each. AAA shot are .8 grams, and AB are .6 grams. Those 4 sizes would cover all your split shot needs on the Salmon River.
Even in a flow of 1,150cfs I had no problem whatsoever getting down with 1 SSG, and in fact there were plenty of spots where I didn't even need that much.
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
Great news, I'm relieved to hear this Torrey. Nice to know that better techniques are being employed, and that our fish are being better taken care of. Thanks for the splitshot measurements/equalities, this should help us in using as little weight as possible. 1,150 is a median value from what I've observed last year, so if you can get away with not much problems getting your fly in the zone, then that is great news. Winter flows often vary, obviously from runoff, but average seems to be in the 1000 + cfs area. With a good storm, flows will push up to 2000 easily, and without could even sink down to 750 or even 500. But, from reports, it seems that a good flow will be maintained on the SR throughout this fall and winter without too much fluctuation. Come spring runoff, 3000, and I'm sure much, much more depending on precipitation. I'm still thankful that we got perfect flows for last April 1 ;D ;D ;D My fingers are crossed for this year! ;)
Re: New Regulations on New York's SALMON RIVER, effective Oct.1
Typical flows on the Salmon River (in my experience) are between 335 and 750cfs, although it's not uncommon for rainfall to push it up well over 1,000. Of course, the higher the flow the closer to the bank the Steelhead push, so ironically sometimes you are using less weight in some spots during high water. :o
