2008 World Fly Fishing Championships

22-30 March, 2008
Rotorua, New Zealand

Final Individual Results
http://www.2008worldflyfishingchamps.../Final_Ind.pdf

Final Team Results
http://www.2008worldflyfishingchamps.../Finalteam.pdf

2008 FIPS-MOUCHE 2008 World Fly Fishing Championships website
http://www.2008worldflyfishingchamps.../ViewPage/Home

We need to get in the top 3 dammit!

You're on your way to making that happen. Hope to (and expect to) see your name on that list in 2009. It was really interesting studying your rig and flies today.

place name total placings points No of fish longest fish
1 CZE - Czech Republic 241300 383 125 540

Someone want to splain me what all this means

I would venture to say the fish total is what it is.

The length is in millimeters I think.

The score I can't tell you much about though.

And on a funny note.. it all means they did better than us >:(

The complete rules are here in English:
http://www.2008worldflyfishingchamps...07-english.pdf

name total placings points No of fish longest fish PLACE

Martin Droz - CZE 51360 78 20 540 1
Julien Daguillanes - FRA 48540 73 20 585 2
Tomas Starychfojtu - CZE 58980 98 22 515 3
John Horsey - ENG 39480 59 22 689 4
Lucjan Burda - POL 35240 56 22 580 5
Des Armstrong - NZL 52800 87 24 535 6
Simon Robinson - ENG 52140 90 24 552 7
Janne Pirkkalainen - FIN 28540 40 24 610 8
Tomas Adam - CZE 53180 87 25 475 9
Piotr Konieczny - POL 47180 80 27 533 10
Antonin Pesek - CZE 47060 71 27 518 11
Jan Bartko - SVK 35500 56 27 560 12
Sandro Soldarini - ITA 40460 65 30 535 13
Luca Papandrea - ITA 36380 59 30 580 14
Aaron West - NZL 34400 55 30 498 15
Donald Thom - CAN 32460 54 30 624 16
John Bell - NZL 29660 41 30 627 17
Kiyoshi Nakagawa - JPN 41000 66 31 525 18
Lloyd Struther - NZL 40660 64 32 585 19
Josh Stephens - USA 29440 44 32 560 20


And how does this work

Interesting results here, have not as yet studied each days totals for individual points, but l would hazard a guess at this. All be it l am not sure how they sectioned the river beats. Fishing the lakes is a different deal, all have the same advantage.
You stick the Czech boys in first position fishing a river section and they will very likely fish it out and attain max points for that section, they may well also do same for other sections they fish after others. they are that good, focused beyond belief.
They had 4 guys in the top 20, that says it all.

They have a very strict team regime and work together, which is one of the most important issues for a team to win, aside from the fact they have great skills as individuals, the French are not that far behind either. And they very quickly asses how to fish new water.

There was a time way back that the English team were invincible, all be it l see my old friend John Horsey did real well in this event. I have no idea why Wales did so poorly, other than they did not have anglers of good skill. I need to have a word with my friend Moc Morgan about that one, he is the Welsh TM.

Davy.

In metric lingo ,a 500 milimeter fish would be about 20 inches, wouldn't it? What types of trout were they catching?

Magnet.

Both Brown and Rainbow trout were introduced to NZ. The fishery there at one time produced monster fish, as with many systems to day human pressure has reduced overall fish sizes.
I had friends there that regularly caught 10lb plus fish in the hay-days, they eat them.

The USA is one of the few countries to day that still uses Imperial measurement. Yes, app 25 mm are to I ins. 10 per centimetre.
It is way easier to work in units of 10. USA currency was based on the Spanish currency historically.
The old English currency was in units of 12, hence l dozen. Or 244 pennies to one English pound. I was in my teens when the UK changed to metric scales of weight, measurement, liquid and coinage, it still confuses me as l still refer to the old Imperial way.

Davy

booooooooooooooooo competitive fly fishing makes me sick

They were brown and rainbow trout I presume.

Craigw,

I would like to know why competitive fly fishing events make you sick.

Davy.

[quote author=Davyfly link=topic=1474.msg10524#msg10524 date=1206972260]

Craigw,

I would like to know why competitive fly fishing events make you sick.

Davy.
[/quote]


Ditto

it was an exageration, i guess its cool but the number game that many fisherman play in recreational fly fishing can be annoying. no offence to anyone who likes count and exagerate about inches and pounds but its not for me. if it was would chuck bait

Here's a very quick thumbnail of the scoring:

1. Each team consists of 5 anglers. One angler from each team comprises a group/sector of anglers
2. You compete directly against your group since you will all be fishing the same venue. Therefore if you draw a lake you are not competing directly against anglers fishing rivers--that would be unfair.
3. All groups eventually fish all venues-dictated by a random computer generated draw. This balances out the entire field by the end.
4. Each measured fish gets 100 points, each cm of measured length gets 20 points. The two are combined as "fish points." Usually 20 cm is the min size, but in NZ they dropped it 18.5 cm. In any event, 2 small fish are worth more than one large fish within reason.
5. In each group, the anglers are ranked according to fish points...most points gets a "1", fewest gets the highest number (equal to number of anglers in each group). If you blank you automatically get the highest ranking point, and there can be multiple blanks.
6. Then, after each session the anglers are ranked together. So, each "1" from each group will occupy the top 5 places overall--with fish points deciding the rank. Largest fish, then time of first fish break ties.

This continues across the entire tourney. Teams are ranked according to combined individual performance.

It is confusing to explain....but makes perfect sense once you go through it once.

Let me at 'em - I'll kick their butt.

Soon as I can retire from my day job

Thanks for the explanation Loren. From the formula, two 20cm fish score the same number of points as one 45cm fish. Since the smaller fish are much faster to land, catching them increases your productivity or efficiency. Say for example that a 20cm (~8in) trout takes 5s to land, score and release, while a 45cm (~18in) takes 50s or so. In this way, you could accumulate the same number of points (1000) in 10s with the smaller fish (100pts per second), but your efficiency reduces to only (20pts per second) with the larger fish.

In a stream area with lots of small fish, you could rack up the points fast. It's interesting how the competitions force you to locate areas that contain small fish - this is counter to how we usually fish a stream for sport!

But they are not involved in traditional fly fishing,,,,,it is a Contest, competition, scoring, judges, rules, egos etc.



Regards,
FK

Everyone has an ego and everyone is competative, whoever says they are not is lying. Some more then others. I have found in my limited experience that the guys who aren't interested in how many they catch or how big they are, aren't generally catching very many big ones and certainly aren't loading them up. Of course, exceptions to all rules, and I certainly count myself among those not catching very many and often jealous of those catching more. There is certainly a component of tranquility and peace on the river that impacts my enjoyment as well. However, I would be lying to say that I wouldn't be annoyed and/or jealous if I was sitting across the river from someone and they catch 25 fish while I catch 3, and with Aaron, that happens often.

I often feel disheartened by hatred and the venom spewing that goes on in FF. To each his own without any judgment is the rule I try and live by. As long as we treat the river and the fish well, who cares if someone likes catching them with bait or nymphing or dry flies? Who cares if they only enjoy themselves when they are telling everyone else how good they are or how many they catch? I mean, it's just fishing right. Whatever you enjoy doing out there, do it, but throw your judgment of others out, or just keep it to yourself.

Like my Mother always says:
"If you don't have anything nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all."

[quote author=FK link=topic=1474.msg10561#msg10561 date=1207055111]
But they are not involved in traditional fly fishing,,,,,it is a Contest, competition, scoring, judges, rules, egos etc.



Regards,
FK
[/quote]

So you've been to a FIPS-Mouche event and met the folks who compete eh?

[quote author=alanb_ct link=topic=1474.msg10557#msg10557 date=1207046382]
Thanks for the explanation Loren. From the formula, two 20cm fish score the same number of points as one 45cm fish. Since the smaller fish are much faster to land, catching them increases your productivity or efficiency. Say for example that a 20cm (~8in) trout takes 5s to land, score and release, while a 45cm (~18in) takes 50s or so. In this way, you could accumulate the same number of points (1000) in 10s with the smaller fish (100pts per second), but your efficiency reduces to only (20pts per second) with the larger fish.

In a stream area with lots of small fish, you could rack up the points fast. It's interesting how the competitions force you to locate areas that contain small fish - this is counter to how we usually fish a stream for sport!
[/quote]

alanB,

these competitions reward consistency. No one guns for trophy fish, nor do we break them off if we hook one. Strategically, you try to net a fish in the first 5 minutes of your session to avoid the dreaded blank. If that is a 5 pound beast you see sipping terrestrials so be it. Then, you fish accordingly to what you think will be most effective and take what the beat gives you. I'd hesitate to say we try to catch little fish--we just don't rig to catch trophies.

But, your assessment is indeed accurate--good job.

I will tell you guys something about competitive fly fishermen. I have never seen a bunch of guys that are better for sharing information and wanting to help out fellow angler. Davy and Loren are two prime examples. Riley Cotter is another person who is on team USA and always takes time to answer my questions and I truly believe they have a genuine interest to see me do well.

I have not had a negative experience when dealing with a competitive fly fisherman. Have any of you?

Yes, many years ago we had a very friendly tournament on Martha's Vineyard in October. Gradually it became well known and many prizes were offered,,,,,then we had fishermen adding lead sinkers to the fishes stomach to boost the weight and win the $$$$. We were FF in the early 1970's when very few even considered the long rods in salt water.

I have a friend who competed in the B.A.S.S. tournaments, he followed one very big personality on the CT river in the few days prior to the "tournament" hoping to learn some techniques. This famous TV personality was salting wire boxes with larger bass caught in the pre tournament days of pracitce. Guess what happened on the first day,,,,he blasted down to the wire cages and filled his live well and won the day. He also found many examples of cheating by the contestants and quit the B.A.S.S. tournaments.

IGFA - Light line tests for FF and saltwater fish,,,,,killing many thousands of fish by overplaying them to exhaustion,,,,why does the IGFA need 4#, 6# etc. class for large saltwater fish? More entries and more membership to pump up "I have a world record fish in the books".

If the individual likes competion and prizes and names in the record books that is fine and should be a personal decision. I have over generalizing all competitive fishing and it may not apply to "World Championships" for FF.

If I have offended anyone, I sincerely appologize.

Regards,
FK

The fish caught in WCFF are netted, measured and returned to the water. There is no room for cheating someone watches all the time and its not only the controller. Also, many useful techniques are gained from this type of fishing. No fish are creeled either. Barbless hooks are used as to cause no damage to the fish.

Also, people have the choice not to do it.

If there is competition, there is room for cheating - somewhere.

There are no hooks that cause NO damage to fish, and some debate that barbless hooks cause more damage, though I have no opinion on that matter, I have not examined the data critically.

Interesting thread. My only experience with competition anglers is on this site and i will agree with others that they have been a wealth of info. I have been fly fishing for 30+ years and by no means an expert or evan close, i just really enjoy the sport. Many times when people find out that i ff there is an immediate sense that think i am some kind of snob. Conversely their have been many times i have been on the river and tried to be freindly and start a conversation with somebody and gotten a cold shoulder. I can't say that i blame competitive fishing for the problems some of us see in attitude, it is just the way we are as a society.
So i will continue to say hi to fellow anglers in the hope we can just get along. :D :D :D

Aaron, I hear the French have been known to cheat in competition. It may just be a rumor, but I've heard it more than once.

Torrey, all I've ever heard was rumor. I've watched them fish enough to know that if there is a team that does not need to cheat it's the French. They really are that good.

Loren-

All I've heard is rumors too. But, I have heard that they are quite talented, just like you said. I know the French love to catch, keep & eat their trout and make Pate. I hear the streams in France are HARD fished and it takes considerable skill to catch fish there. There is a good chapter in Leonard Wright's book "Trout Heresies" entitled "The World's Greatest Trout Fisherman" where he talks about following around a professional French fisherman who made a living catching trout out of public streams and selling them to restaurants. He said the guy's abilities were nothing short of amazing.

[quote author=Nymphmeister link=topic=1474.msg10646#msg10646 date=1207187305]
I hear the streams in France are HARD fished and it takes considerable skill to catch fish there.
[/quote]

This is probably the single largest reason that they are so good, extreme discipline is second.

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