Wow, thanks for the detailed answer Davy, you've got me all psyched up to tie it now. I've heard of but never seen the Peter Ross, have to look that one up if you recommend it so highly.
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Wow, thanks for the detailed answer Davy, you've got me all psyched up to tie it now. I've heard of but never seen the Peter Ross, have to look that one up if you recommend it so highly.
Peter Ross link with picture & dressing:
http://www.fish4flies.com/Wet/Winged/Peter_Ross
Alexandra link:
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flyt...w/9798fotw.php
Invicta link:
http://www.members.tripod.com/invictaflies/id121.htm
Wickham's Fancy:
http://www.classictrout.com/wetflies...sfancy_wet.php
Coch-Y-Bondhu:
http://www.illawarraflyfishers.com.a...ying/cochy.htm
Checked you links here.
the only two things l would question are this,
The hackle for the Coch Y bonddu is by the same name, it is a dark red furnace with a black center and black tips, it is as a matter of interest the only name in Welsh for both the beetle and the hackle used.
It means red and black in Welsh.
I do not twist the peacock either, that is done for the excuse it reduces it to break when fish take the fly, it also reduced the effects that the herl transmits, which is more important to me.
If you wind 3 stands of good herl the barbs should stand out at right angles to the fly body.
I would then rather use a fine gold wire as a ribbing medium. Some prefer the black thread.
A fly called the Greenwells glory uses the same hackle, but here it is more of a ginger with the black inner and outer.
In the UK we refer to both hackles as Coch Y bonddu and Greenwells.
In the case of the Whickham. There are many shades of gold from a deep yellow to a very light, nearly gold/silver.
You need the tinsel that is more so of the deeper yellow gold, as this differs when subject to overhead light than say tinsel of a much lighter color. It is a fly that works well when there is good light but also as a late dusk to dark fly and in colored water.
The dry fly version of this fly can also be a killer.
The above is important for me so far as how the flies should be tied, above all l am very fussy about my flies, that is at the end of the day what we wish the fish to take !!!
And l also know there will be differences here when a fly is in some way altered, which in some cases may be for the better.
Have a great Christmas guys, l am off to Dave Whitlocks for some fishing and hunting fun and the company of my best friend.
Back home 29th.
Davy.
Davy I noticed that several of your recommended wets have gold tinsel bodies or underbodies. Do you ever substitute holographic tinsel for regular tinsel? I noticed some variations on your suggested patterns that included that, wondered what your opinion/experience was. BTW, thanks for your input on the subtle things that differentiate a good version of the pattern from a great version, those are the kind of details I love to know. I had a feeling you are very particular about how you tie your wets (and other patterns too), I'm the same way about my favorite flies.
Tell Dave Whitlock that his Fox Squirrel is one of my favorite nymphs, and I have caught many a good trout on it. I love suggestive flies like that. In various sizes, I use it for March Browns, Golden Stoneflies, small Crayfish, Cahills, Sulfurs, Gray Foxes, tan caddis, molted nymphs, scuds, etc. I sell lots of them in our fly shop. Aaron always rolls his eyes and makes fun of me when I bring that pattern up, because he prefers specific imitations and does not fish that pattern, but I will kick his ass with that fly some day and then the next time I see him he will have a few dozen in his box, Lol. Actually, I've caught big trout on it in front of him on more than one occasion. I got him fishing Hare's Ears again after an onstream "education" one day last year, and I have a felling the Fox Squirrel will be his next "lesson" some day soon. I'm also very particular about how I tie that nymph, and I prefer to make my own dubbing blends for it, so I can also appreciate your attention to detail in flies, I'm no different. If nothing else, it gives me more confidence when I fish them, even if the trout don't give a rat's ass.
For the Invicta wet, what substitutes do you recommend for the yellow seal's fur body? SLF?
Is the Coch Y Bonddu hackle what we would refer to as Furnace in the US?
Merry Christmas!
Yes, Furnace is the term used here, but a little more generic in so far as how l would see the right color.
Yes, l also use bodies or ribbing mediums of pearl, no doubt that its inclusion works well for given patterns.
Confidence with the fly you use no doubt is very important, my years at this game have taught me that one, but more to the point here, l also know that under given conditions the odds are certain flies will work.
I find it strange that Aaron would think the way he does, as l know for sure there will be many times that he would struggle to catch fish. Granted there are some patterns that need to be more so anatomical, but as a rule they will be small flies and those that are fished in or on the surface.
If you recall l did write in a former post that we humans do tend to analyze a fly more so by how we see it or believe the trout does, which is not so much the way l view things. My friend Olliver Edwards who likes to tie close copy nymphs, ok great fly tying exercise, but l have always argued with Oliver that there is no trout that counts tails and legs, and the more solid bodies that those flies exhibit have little life other than a more anatomical definition.
Another friend of mine, Roman Moser from Austria is a great fly fisherman, his flies are some of the most scruffy creations you would ever see.
I know for a fact that Romans flies will beat Olliver hands down when it come to catching fish.
By the way the GRHE is one of my all time favorite suggestive nymphs to use, there is not a trout system in the world that that fly will not catch fish. It is also a superb dry fly as well as a wet and soft hackle, no other fly that l know of has that degree of versatility. If there is one l would like to know of it. There is no other natural fur that has the uses that Hare fur does either.
I wrote many years ago a long article related to the use of a hares mask, the editor had to reduce the article by a few 1000 words, it was too long.
The variations that this fly can be tied are unreal when you think about it. All be it it was a fly tied to represent the nymph of the UK March Brown.
Yes, you bet l am very fussy about the flies l use, as l know it is what makes the difference. Excluding fishing for stock trout that have no sense, at least for a while.
You can obtain yellow seals fur here in the US from a few sources, but it does have to be seal of the best quality which was taken from baby seals and not adults, as that is more like pig wool, worthless shit.
Yellow SLF is about the best alternative.
Merry Christmas and back here around the 28th.
Davy.
I agree, Ollie's flies are beautiful and I'm sure they catch plenty of fish, but are way too time consuming to tie. Trout cannot count, and besides, 2-4' down in the water, with current, air bubbles, debris, etc., how clearly can they see minute details? Size, silhouette, overall tone (light/medium/dark) yes, six legs and three tails? I doubt it. I'm more on board with Roman's scruffy yet deadly ties, and Hare's Ears!!! I incorporate that in flies whenever I can can. I'm actually very particular about my Hare's Ear dubbing- I cut if off the mask, and I avoid a lot of the lighter colored fur, I generally prefer mine on the slightly darker side. I then mix it in the blender with a bit of antron dubbing (Hare's Ear color) and maybe a touch of Ice Dub too, just for some very subtle sparkle & highlights. Used sparingly, I love to blend a little Ice Dub into my patterns.
Aaron does have a few rows of Hare's Ear nymphs in his fly box nowadays, and he does use some non-specific patterns such as a Prince Nymph (killer pattern in so many places, esp. my home river the Housatonic). I'll convert him to the Fox Squirrel soon enough. Caught my biggest Housy trout this year on it. The first time I fished the Housy up in Massachussetts with Aaron, we did very well on nymphs & dries, and I caught the fish of the day on guess what, a Fox Squirrel! Lol.
I know that Aaron is intrigued now with fishing wets, after getting guided by Kurt Thomas (clarionriveradventures.com) on the Clarion River in PA this Spring. Kurt fishes wets a lot, and prefers to fish them somewhat cross stream in a semi drag-free way. Aaron thought that was pretty cool, 'cuz it wasn't the simple down and across swing. Kurt modifies a Picket Pin into a smaller wet fly, and has fantastic success with it, there and everywhere else. Davy, you would clean house on that river with your wet flies if you go there in the Spring, Summer or Fall (it's a tailwater of sorts, with holdover & wild browns up to 30" plus, 20" or better are commonplace there). Ask Aaron about it, I think you would really love that stream, it strikes me as an above average one to ply with wets.
First let's get to a point why did wet flies become a forgotten classic in the USA. One was due to the developement of the American CATSKILL Dry Fly by Theodore Gordon who had followiers that preserved the style Gordon came up with ala Steenrod and Rubin Cross. Second after Ray Bergmans book Trout the dry Fly, Nymph, streamer and moving forward emergers and new styles of flies like the Hay stacks and comparaduns were taking over. Also look at the addition of new material to be used into fly tying that was not available in older days. So wet flies were pushed a side and forgotten about. Now why was this fly forgotten about in the USA for so long. Not so easy to find materials llike Duck and Goose quills in assorted died colors. How about that wet flies took a little patience and practice to tye and make them look good to beautiful, lastly there is not a lot of us out there that teach and show how to tye wet flies. Then lastly I am at times alone in this catagory, fish them. Now far as pattern for the USA, I would never be with out the following list:
1) Hare Ear wet
2) Green Wells Glory
3) Blue Professor
4) Dark Hendrickson wet
5) The Captain
6) The Black Prince
7) The Grizzly King
8) Grey Hackle Peacock
9) The Romyn
10) Cahills being light and Dark
11) Pink Lady
12) English March Brown
13) Fontinalis Fin
Now add to the fact that today's newbies to wet flies does not have an uderstanding how to fix/repair quills that are rippled or slighly magled, do not know how to get flank wing materials other than going to a local fly shop. Then lets talk about fishing them. I have heard all the way on this site to fish them, and have also heard about fishing wet flies in size 12 & 14. Guy's I have been fishing size 6 & 8 wet flies with much success in the Catskills and in NJ and in PA. I have been experimenting with all the flies in Bergman's book Trout and have been finding when they work and under what stream conditions and wheather. I too have a copy of Davys wet fly ways and love it. I don't all agree with everything in the video about the fishing, but Dayy did show me a much easier and affective leader to easily constuct for three wet fly rigs. I am very please to see so much interest agin in the USA about wet flies and can't wait to meet some of you and fish wet fly's together on stream.
Fontinalis
AKA Andy B
Andy,
Yes, you are probably right in why wet fly fishing lost its way here in the US. There is a misconception that fly fishers in the UK are dry fly fishers, far from the truth and always has been.
It was only the few who cast a fly on the hallowed chalk streams found in the south of England that pursued that way of thought, Mr, Halford being the one most known, which as you may well know also resulted in transatlantic communications, which l have no doubt may well have been one of the reason why there was a move to ward dry fly fishing here in the US.
I think also further considerations here are the resources that at that time fly fishers were able to use, at least in pursuit of trout, all be it Brook trout would have been included.
What was at that time the domain of Brown and Rainbow trout as we know it to day.
Was there a very limited number of persons who pursued fly fishing and was that largely confined to the upper NE regions. which in many some ways also has a similarity to what took place in England so far as the chalk streams, which are confined to a small zone in the south.
Fly fishers by and large that fished Scotland, Wales and Ireland had no clue.
Publications at that time were limited to say the least.
The Hardy company no doubt has some impact here. Catalogues of the late 1800s, some of which l own, no doubt spread the word further, most certainly with the availability of flies for trout and salmon fishing around the world to the gentry. Not to mention fly fishing equipment.
I frequently look at those catalogues of the past, T
Power surge here, lost my post.
Those catalogues contain so much historical information one way or the other. Much of which is not known to day.
As a matter of interest for you here Andy. It was the company of Messina who were by far the purveyors of fly tying material in the past in the UK, before it was taken over by the Veniard family, many of them l knew before they passed away.
John was in fact a very good friend of mine.
I spent many hours in the warhouse of Veniards which was in fact a house in the middle of a regular English street would you believe.
Davy.
Davy:
I have a Verniard LTD pamphlet or very small paer book called:
WET Flies
Dressing Of Eighty-two Useful
Wet Fly Patterns
The book is from:
E.Verniard LTD.
Paramount Warehouses
138 Northwood Road
Thorton Heath, Surrey
England, CR4 8YG
Would this by any chance the place you are referring to?
Andy