Czech or Polish Nymphing

Aaron,

The international rules apply to competition regardless of the rivers or lakes fished. That puts all anglers fishing the event under the same rules. In fact if one team member fished outside of the rules the odds are the entire team would be disqualified.

During the time we fish the events each angler is monitored by a controller who makes sure you fish by the rules, and is also there to measure the fish you catch.

Would the addition of lead if allowed make significant changes, may be some but not as much as you might believe.
Many events are fished both on rivers and lakes for that particular event.
l for one would not use the addition of lead shot when fishing lakes, as there are way more effective ways by use of the fly line and leader systems to fish flies at any depth and speed that you wish.
And l also know many of my friends who are expert still water anglers would think the same way here.

Are we at a disadvantage in so far as we have to chop and change flies, really not to be honest as you simply use weighted flies and not shot to determine the levels of presentation you need at that time or fly lines.
It is for example way easier to load say a size 10 hook with lead as a anchor than add the same amount of lead to the leader, if that makes sense to you.
So are competition anglers at a disadvantage, not really as you work with alternatives within the regulations.

Do l use lead when fishing, yes l do, but l might also choose not to and fish without lead. For example, here on the White we have a one fly rule in trophy zones and l wish to fish a size 18 sowbug at depth while boat drifting. There is no way that hook is able to hold sufficient weight and retain the profile of the 18 hook fly, lead is the only option here. Unless l chose to fish a fly that l was able to add sufficient weight, but that fly may not be the one to catch me fish at that time.

With International competition rules the odds are you would not be fishing water that allowed only one fly.

Davy

Davy-

Do you find you can detect more subtle takes with the weighted fly in a tandem rig as opposed to split shot above the flies? I would think this would put you in more direct contact with your flies?

Rego,

This is not a easy question to answer as there are so many factors related here. But to summarise this the way l see it is this.
The manner in which you set your system up will determine the value of being able to detect takes that are minimal. The placement of weight is a factor no doubt of that along with line diameter used, depth from indicator to the anchor, which may be weight fly or both.
How you made the initial presentation, the period of drift, speed of water, type of indicator system you use and so on.

Bottom line is there is no way you will hook all fish that take your fly. As a rule faster water provides more chance as the indication is more immediate than when fishing slow water, when a fish is able to eject the fly before the system tensions to give you the indication, particularly when using a indicator.

And l might add here that this is not always related to using small amounts of weight either, it depends on how you have the system set up, and if your fly is up or downstream from the weight above during the drift.
Typically what happens is the weight which acts as the anchor is upstream of the fly.

Davy.

I (Davy) used to tie these guys commercially. These are the Polish style not to be confused with the Czech style which are way easier to tie.

Polish style are almost always a leaded underbody.

These are some of my patterns.


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...patterns_1.jpg

Davy, Torrey and Aaron-

Would you guys mind describing how you set up your indicator tandem nymphing rigs so we all can compare styles?

Also, how often do you guys employ other nymphing methods such as high-sticking, Brooks method or the czech technique?

Thanks!

Nymph leader, split shot 12-18" above the top fly (bigger and/or heavier one), tie 12"-24" dropper off hook eye to second fly (smaller and/or lighter one)- make dropper tippet 1 x size lighter than the tippet.

Brooks method? Never. I think a running line & heavy split shot is superior in that kind of water- that's how we fish steelhead in really fast, heavy, deep water. Gets you down fast, and keeps you deep & in touch with your flies.

High sticking- in shallow to moderate depth fast pocket water. When fishing really close with a decent amount of weight on the leader, not only is an indicator sometimes unnecessary, but actually undesirable.

Czech/Polish nymphing- only a few times, but I want to play with the technique more and see if it has it's moments of superiority. Aaron is down on the technique, he thinks it's inferior to strike indicator nymphing the way we do it. I think every method has it's moments, and strike indicator nymphing has many moments. It's also the method I use the most and am most proficient at, so I'm probably somewhat biased towards it.

Still haven't personally decided if it's just a technique that evolved out of competition fishing to catch lots of small fish in fast, shallow water and to get down without weight & strike indicators on the leader (not allowed in international competitions), or if there actually is a real reason why it might be better. I like the leader set up- basically nothing but straight tippet with 2-3 weighted nymphs on it. Many of the competitors are now using really thin superbraids to a micro ring with their fluoro tippets off that- this way of rigging insures a super thin leader with almost no stretch in it, for better strike detection, better sinking/depth penetration, and better hook sets. Because their line is actually tight while fishing (they lead & slightly pull their nymphs through the drift), they detect an extremely high percentage of their hits, and hook a goodly percentage of them. Strike indicator nymphing misses many hits, and even when detected it's not uncommon to not hook the trout when you set the hook.

It is a method most suited to faster, shallower water where you can approach the fish quite closely. It was actually, I believe, originally developed mainly over Grayling- a fish that not only likes fast, shallow water, but also tolerates a very close approach. Some Czech nymphers shuffle to bring the fish right below their feet- not too ethical!

I would not say that I am down on that method of fishing. However, here in the US we are allowed to use split shot and we do not have to weight our flies in places of added weight to the line. There are many times that you will see me fishing without a strike indicator. Of course heavy pocket water would be a time when using no indicator is a benefit. However, I have also found that not using a strike indicator when shallow water sight fishing has been a great technique. I think at times the indicator landing on the water can spook the fish no matter how lightly you can make it land.

My whole argument is that Czech nymphing and tightline nymphing have many similarities. I don't see the reason unless for means of competitive fly fishing rules to use flies for weight when you can be more precise in choosing weights by adding or removing split shot. This also makes the process easier for myself.

If I were to compete internationally I would have no choice but to become adept at that method of fishing sub-surface.

The one thing for sure I like about the Czech/Polish nymphing is the way they use straight tippet for their leaders, superbraid even, with micro rings for connections. I would like to try a Czech leader set up, but subsitute split shot for the middle fly they normally use as weight to get down. That way I can use normal flies and don't have to constantly change my flies instead of just adding or losing a weight. Beats having to tie hundreds or thousands of the same flies in 3 different weights.

Funny, I've read & heard argued over the years that putting split shot on your line deadens your connection to your nymph, that where possible a weighted nymph/beadhead gives you a more direct connection & better sensitivity. All I know is that all the best nymph fishermen of my acquaintance use split shot most of the time. And most use indicators, although a few old school guys like Joe Humphreys and George Anderson don't use an indicator. George Anderson, from what I've heard, is a really, really good nympher & fisherman.

Finally, someone translated a book on this subject into English. It's called "Czech Nymph", and I just got it in the fly shop. Looks really good, this is the only book solely on this subject & available in the USA, and it is well done too, covering virtually everything you need to know, including good color pix of 150 different patterns. Tackle, rigging, leader make-up, different methods, etc. If you really want to delve into this technique and the fly patterns, this is the way to go. Call (860-672-1010) or email (hflyshop@aol.com) if you have questions, and ask for Torrey. ;)

Anybody else had a chance to look at this book? I thought it was pretty good, curious to hear other's opinions.