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I 'm woundering ,were salmon wet flys created before trout wet flys ? I dont think there is an answer but you might know .I do know that long rods were in use over across the pond ,way before they came here and they are not very popular with people in the states . A.H.E. Woods had rods built for him by Hardy single handed 12' rods for salmon and steelhead . Wet flys with wings can be fished with a greased line ,lead with the rod ,and swung deep .
There are many patterns for many situations . The classics ,which look like natural bugs I feel always catch more fish (march brown) .
I dont think we can use the word tradtional fly fishing anymore .it is more advanced at this point . In the old days the use of split shot was fronwed upon .I do belive these are things ( that gentelmen didnt do back then ) Mostly because it was taught you do this ,this way .Change was always frowned upon till someone could prove that something worked .
It was noted that flys with bulky bodies didnt work well for this method ,some flys were just painted hooks with wings to help them sink on a long leader .It only make sense . Line control is a matter here because the mend has to be made without moving the leader .This is were the longer rod comes into play .The mend is easier to make because it is closer to the end of the fly line ,the further the tip is away the more effert it takes to make the mend . I do think this can be done with a sinking line as well im still working on that . The thing about sinking lines is they like to come back at your feet ,so a larger and slacker line must be cast .This helps the fly to float more naturally but get down in fast water .
If I know there are fish in a run ,I start out up top ( unless the water tempature is 45 to 50 ) then work my way down . The hardest part is trying to find a fly they like . ( start with the bug patterns first ) I also dont like glo bugs ,if you are fishing that way just get the corky and yarn out ! :o
12-11-2008, 05:26 PM
Fontinalis
Re: Knight's Templar
Hi Davy:
When we talk about the past the tyers of inovation only had materials that were availble to them. I truly feel that some of the tyers of the past like Darbee, Dette, Bergman and I even feel skues would have looked and experimented with the newer materials and would have implimented them in their patterns. Now others of that time I feel would have stopped there and claimed heressy and see no need for improvement or creation. I feel this situation would be the same on both sides of the pond. Now the longer rods I can see a point and understand fully, the issue here have you ever taken a rod like that and fished some of the Catskill streams like the Willowemoc or the Esopus and Fir brook or a lot of the stream in PA and part of NJ. These larger rods would not be practical. So a good angler learns to mend and learns to curve the line just as the line is falling on the water. This aloows pretty much the same philosophy. Now on large streams or large bodies of waters like lake/Locks I could see this being used to one advantage. I never doubted your ways or your method that works. I just know a lot of the areas I fish in and know what will work for me with the stream and amount of space that I have to work with. I did find this post to be very interesting and apprecaite your thoughts and input.
12-11-2008, 06:48 PM
Davyfly
Re: Knight's Templar
Nutman,
That is a hard question to answer, Salmon flies before trout, and l cannot give you the answer to that, other than this. There are records of fly patterns going way back, and they are more so related to trout flies. Also looking at the hook industry as such the larger irons used for Salmon flies were not produced at that time. That is not to say a Atlantic Salmon would not take small flies, as they will, l have caught very many grilse using hook sizes 12 and 10, trout size, not low water salmon irons, which have a way longer shank.
The oldest feather wing Salmon flies l have see date back to the late 1800s.
Fontinalis,
I have no doubt at all that those guys would have used the materials we have available to day.
When l started tying which was early 60s, almost all of the man made materials were not available at the time.
Many of the now deceased guys l knew back then were of a very strong opinion that a fly was of worth only if natural materials were used, which we know well enough is not the case.
The only issue l would draw myself is this. That natural materials do require overall more fly tying skill, for very many reasons. My years as a commercial tyer back then taught me lessons that few tyers to day understand, which l know you do by looking at your wet flies.
When l was tying flies commercially in those days, almost all the fly patterns l tied were flies that had been originated in the 1800s to mid 1900s.
You would be very interested l am sure to fish some of those fly patters innovated by the likes of Dunn, Lunn, Kingsley Moore, such fly patterns are no longer available to day, and few are aware of them.
If there is any major advantage to day over and above the benefits of man made materials to attract fish, it is that many of the materials used provide for a fly to last a long time, as they are way more resistant to the effects of trouts teeth and destruction caused by casting in a ugly manner. And in many cases the nature of the tying is simple compared to working with natural materials.
We also to day have techniques that by and large enable a fly to be constructed that will last a long time, modern threads being one of those reasons.
Long rods, yes of course l accept that a long rod when fishing small creeks and streams can be a serious disadvantage, and l would of course at that time fish with a shorter rod. I would also suggest here that when fishing such waters long range casting is not so much the issue.
I used to fish very many small streams in the UK that are like the rivers you named. I do at times miss that kind of fishing, the White river is a very different story as are most rivers out west that l fish.
Take care for now.
Davy.
12-11-2008, 07:25 PM
AaronJasper
Re: Knight's Templar
Davy,
Thanks for the history lessons! I am sure those guys would go crazy with the materials that we have today. Imagine what they could come up with!
