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Well, I guess I don't have any more to say on this one.It isn't going in the introspective direction I had hoped it would. There are no quick fixes nor is there any real need to fix anything. I just wanted to get it out there as something to think about. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am already a member of 2 other sites and other than an occasional new stream in PA, I have not learned hardly anything compared to what I have learned from here.
That is why I believed in it enough to be a "rockstar".
I have so many weekends monopolized by playing gigs etc. I can't get into a lot of the clinics etc. This site has been my clinic. THANKS TO ALL.
Steve
RB, has raised some valid points here.
National FF mags for example do see a high turnover of readership, if l recall John Randolph did tell me one time that is was around 70% every 3 years, something like that.
Which means at the end of the day, they could if they so wished re-issue magazine content on a 3 yr cycle.
That being said we also have to consider that we see in the 3 year period, newcomers, those in the 3 to 6 year cycle and those who are past the 6 year cycle.
There fore, with the introduction of new products, new concepts and so on it is one of the reasons why magazines continue to be purchased, all be it the industry is not having a good time, and neither are book sales.
However it is the advertising media that largely supports those magazines to survive, without that they would not, as by and large direct retail sales and subscriptions do not cover production costs.
Now take the overall content of value you find to day in a FF magazine that you pay a few bucks for, is it worth it or not.
You may read it once and that's it, after which its thrown away or stock piled. How often do you from that time on refer back to that publication.
FF sites offer something very different, interaction with others on a given subject matter.
If it is a good site then so will be the overall content, and it is easy if the site is set up to back track on history on a given subject matter.
Without a doubt the major FF site has been Sexyloops, there are more pages on that board than any other, much of the content is way above what the average fly fisher can comprehend, particularly matters related to casting.
I used to post on the site regularly at one time when subject matters that were being discussed were of interest for me to add posts to the thread.
What we see today on loops is very different, almost all subject matters you could think of have been discussed in great detail. What we see now does not generate the same degree of interest from many of those who participated in past issues of great interest.
By and large the same scenario is for Fly Fishing Arkansas and MO. What was at one time great content is no longer, it more or less amounts to guys using the site to talk with each other.
Is there a way to resurrect these sites to what they once were, frankly l doubt it, for the reason that if there is a new site that offers way better content then it will generate more membership and content of interest, remember not all who read the sites post.
As of now TPO has not reached its potential, it matters not if subject matters that have been discussed in the past on other boards are again discussed we are again dealing with new fly fishers and those who did not at the time follow the boards that did, again l refer back to the magazine cycle.
I at one time wrote a regular monthly column for a UK magazine for 15 years, and contributed regular articles for others published in many countries around the world over a period of some 30 years, granted l got paid for that.
To day most of my writings are posted to sites such as TPO, the money deal is not the issue, it is for two reasons, one to help educate others from my lifetime of FF experience, and secondly because unlike a magazine we can converse with each other on matters of interest and educational value.
However, some one has to foot the bill for this to happen !!!
Davy
I have taken the time to read through all these comments and let me let everyone know where Aaron and I are since I think that's the best point made here.
The idea from the very start has been to spread information. To share what Aaron and those he meets and associates with know with anyone who could come up with a question for them.
We found the best way to do that was:
-Create this forum
-Offer people more opportunities to learn with Aaron face to face.
-Offer people opportunities to learn with other experts we meet.
and most importantly in my opinion...
-Keep producing dynamic media content for people online.
Problem is this... although I have spent thousands of hours on the creation, metamorphosis, and upkeep of this site, and although Aaron has now posted multiple thousands of reports and answers to questions... we have generated less then 1500 dollars.
Now, next question is this... why do we need money, and what are we going to do with it?
Well... We would like to produce some full length instructional films, adventure films, and fly tying films with Aaron and other Knowledgeable fishermen... we can't afford the equipment, travel expenses or time off from both the second jobs we have to do that right.
I would also like to produce some more dynamic content, like my interview with April Vokey, however, I just don't have enough time or money to invest in the right software or take the day off from work that I need to produce this content.
We would like to hire some well known fishermen to come do a couple clinics a year for our members... we can't really afford to front the cash to book these people.
We would like to put on some events for you! Our loyal members who make this site what it is. Think about it... Equiptment demo days, BBQ's, Educational Summits, Organized Fishing Trips. Once again, the overhead for these kinds of events is simply too much.
Aaron and I haven't been able to put content together for almost three months now because of how busy we are with our full time and second jobs, of which we both have, trying to keep afloat and save money for a drift boat and equipment.
I feel this way about the fly fishing industry right now, if you want to get something done, you better do it yourself.
This whole rockstar experiment has been an learning experience and I think we can make it better.
If you can't contribute money... fine, I don't really want you to give us money if you don't have it. I don't want people to take food out of their kids mouths or not pay their phone bill because they bought a membership... but perhaps you could show your appreciation by helping.
I have 100 great ideas for TPO, for the site and other things, but I don't have the time to do them all, I barely have the time to keep this going. Want to help, write me an email and ask me how you can help.
Off the top of my head...
I would like to invite a few famous fishermen here in the next year and offer clinics to our members. Who's going to write me an email and offer to organize the whole thing, collect the money, and facilitate the event? Hell, you would get to attend a clinic with a world famous fly fisher person for a day or weekend for free! I am even willing to give you a good share of whatever money TPO makes.
I would like to have a BBQ to celebrate our 1000 member milestone. Where are we going to get the food? Who is going to organize the event? Should we email out an invitation? Who is going to make the invitation? Who is going to take pictures? What are we going to do? Where are we going to meet? Who's going to email me and be in charge of organizing this?
I would like to put on a day featuring a whole bunch of equipment for guys to try out.
I would like to put out some full length HD DVD's or even BluRays this year. Anyone know anyone who can lend us the equiptment we need, anyone know any companies willing to help sponsor the DVD so we can put out the first production run? Anyone know anyone at any companies willing to fund a short trip so we can film a local adventure video? Anyone know how to market the DVD? How do we get it in flyshops and sell copies of it? Does one of the 1000 members have any idea how to get this going? If not, who's going to volunteer to find out exactly how we do get it done?
I would like to have a professional web developer help us figure out how to optimize our site so we show up better on web searches. For this, we need either a very good web developer to volunteer or some money to pay one. Any ideas?
So, that's just the tip of the iceberg. I have a million good ideas when it comes to this site and community. I love it, it's my baby, and if it paid me 50k a year I would quit both my jobs and work full time on delivering content to all of you, but alas, here I am working full time at one job and waiting tables at night just to keep afloat, and I'm not telling anyone this to make them feel bad but to help them understand the aspirations I have for this site and why it's hard for Aaron and I to help it realize it's full potential. Gotta eat and all.
Lastly, one thing you should know about me. I'm open minded and very willing to delegate, and take criticism/suggestion, if there is anyway that anyone thinks they can help, I'm all ears, it's not about the money, it's about growing this community, this thing we all love. The money was just one way to help facilitate that growth, but I know it isn't the only way.
Thanks for the open discussion, much love.
Justin
Has Tpo ever tried to gain a sponser? I mean you said it yourself we have 1000 members, must mean something, Are we the fastest growing fly fishing forum? With all the traffic in here you figure some company would offer help for some advertising..I dont know its just a thought...
You are probably right...but there would need to be a model/plan in place to measure ROI...etc.Quote:
With all the traffic in here you figure some company would offer help for some advertising
Once contracts and cash come in to play....
You know what Justin...find an attorney and accountant too...
Im sure theres someone in this industry that can help.
1.stead of just having a BBQ< Lets make it a fundrasing bbq. We could get donated food and drinks and charge a Donation.
2. Why cant we get a local shop to donate some gear at a heavily discounted price for a raffle?
3.I beleive in tpo and i also beleive in the guys that run it, If there's anyway my time can help Im here
I just want to make people aware. I just made a whole list of stuff we should get done. This is your community as much as it is mine. Like I said before, it's not about the money. To get these things done it takes time and effort.
A sponsored BBQ with an admintence fee is a great idea. We can even recuite a speaker for it, but who is going to step up. Who is going to be the "BBQ chairman"?
That's the problem, I have lots of great ideas, I would like to get site sponsors or a little banner advertising as well, who is going to be the "advertising chair"
I wouldn't mind getting an accountant or attorney either, who is one on the site and who is going to volunteer their time? I would like to make TPO a non profit educational organization, but who is going to help me with the formation?
That's the whole point of my long rambling response. There are tons of great ideas out there and I have a ton of good ones myself, the question is... Who has the time to help me facilitate them?
In fairness, Bob aka magnet already pm'ed me and offered his time, property and services. Who's next?
justin.massimo@gmail.com
Juice its about high time companies realize that Aaron has a Golden tounge.. Whatever Aaron Recommends On this Forum People on here buy.. It takes money to gorw, but I think its just a bump in the road.. If were gonna have a BBQ Maybe it should be done before winter sets in? Or just wait till spring..