Knight's Templar

Knights Templer

Thank you for sharing so much valuable information. Your methods appear very different then Davy Wotton's long soft rod fly manipulation techniques which just proves there many ways to catch fish. I suspect there is a lot more you both know about fish and their habits which make you both exceptional fisherman like some of the others on this site.

I gave my dad's copy of Ray Bergmans book to my Nephew after he passed away. My Nephew played baseball and did a lot of fly fishing around the country.

I always wondered why smart trout would hit those beautiful, brightly colored flies you tie and in Bergman's book. Most of them look like art pieces rather then fish food. Do you fish a bright fly alone or with other flies thay are more imitators?

What a great looking fly! Your proportions are excellent. I can tell you've put a lot of work into your craft.

Do you ever fish smaller sizes, like down to #16 or 18?

I've decided and committed myself to learning more about fishing wets this upcoming season and when I see the workmanship that you exhibit, it gets me jazzed to bring my tying up to that next level. I usually tie working flies, especially with my nymphs because I don't think detail matters too much as far as nymphs are concerned, but when I see flies like the ones you've tied, it gets me inspired.

Thanks!

Brookie,

When we fish in the spring we will only fish wets. Do you have a slime line? Depending on the depth and current speed they can be deadly. I did really well one time in deep fast water with a type 3 but that was only one time out of many tries. Just make sure to have a floater like the Selective Trout and an Aqua Lux from Rio. Its lots of fun when the fish whack your fly since it is a near tight line presentation. Also, every fish that rises will take a wet fly.

Bottom line... Its great fun!

[quote author=AaronJasper link=topic=2213.msg15549#msg15549 date=1228348235]
Brookie,

When we fish in the spring we will only fish wets. Do you have a slime line? Depending on the depth and current speed they can be deadly. I did really well one time in deep fast water with a type 3 but that was only one time out of many tries. Just make sure to have a floater like the Selective Trout and an Aqua Lux from Rio. Its lots of fun when the fish whack your fly since it is a near tight line presentation. Also, every fish that rises will take a wet fly.

Bottom line... Its great fun!
[/quote]

No, I don't have a slime line yet, but I will for sure by the springtime. As far as the floaters go, is it imperative to have one of the lines you listed above? Can't just use a regular WF floater? If not, why?

Looking forward to fishing with you again soon Aaron. We will definitely fish a lot of wets this spring!

These flys , are a form of art ,but when they are wet they look like alot of different things fish eat .What most of you miss is what it looks like wet . Pupa ? A small fish ? A nymph ? A small fish with a red side . Tempature of the water can dictate everything when using these . If the water is below say 50 degrees ,you would want to fish them deep or intermedate . If it is above that then you might fish them on top or in the subsurface .
They can look like a nymph with it's shell (somewhat on)swimming to the top .Different colors ,for different ,water types ,and times of day .And also weather !
I havent looked long enough at bergmens book ,but I do belive he had charts for some of these things . Not that all of them work mind you .As fishermen we have to study these things .
I think that they can be fished on a floating line . I think a long pole 11 to 12 foot would help ,because the mend is the secret to fishing these types of flys .
Mending the line ,without breaking the the movement of the fly ,lets the fly sink ,it is all in the mend .I think the ten foot rod is probably the best bet on east coast streams ,but I could see use for longer on the west coast .
Is anyone understanding my point of the longer rod ? let the fly sink make the mend (the longer the rod ,the closer you are to the fly so the mend is made more gently ) thus not moving the fly in it's drift .

Yeah, Davy is a big fan of 10'-11' rods for wets, I think he said he even has a 12' #4/5 rod. The length definitely gives you more control over the flies, and mending ability. Also a big help when you dance the upper fly on the water.

Brookie-
If I remember correctly, Davy recommended a very supple DT line, he likes #4 & #5 in general for wets. The flexibility of the line is supposed to enhance the animation of the fly. A longer, softer rod also is supposed to add to your ability to make subtle manipulations to the flies to make them appear lifelike & tease the trout into taking them.

I would think that the Rio Selective Trout DT line would be very good based upon my experience using it in the lake. I also had the Snowbee line that he likes a lot and it was a great casting as well as an extremely limp line.

I have yet to test this out . I do think that a five weight ,paired with a threeweight line might work .I think the snowbee is a light line designed for grease lining .The mend is supposed to be a roll and place .not a cast up stream .This is very hard to achive with a 9'6 rod unless you are working close to the fish .
Which is a whole other ball game . The flys are designed bigger to help them sink faster .You could make them smaller ,there is one problem adding weight to the flys makes the wings harder to mount . So lighter line larger hook get the right mend in and the hook sinks to the bottom . Add a split shot or to or a sinking line for the condition of the water .
If you let the line sweep at the end of the drift the fish get hooked by themselves .Sometimes ;)
The other option is to add soft hackle weighted wets at the bottom then put a winged wet above . Or for that matter really screw with the fish and put a cezch nymph on the bottom .then a wet fly .
Nymphmeister has said plenty of times it doesnt take that much weight to tack bottom .
Temp of the water is a big deal here ,joe humphery says alot about it in the front of his book .He gives the best times to fish at the best tempatures .
How handy is a thermeter ? ;D

OK, Guys.

I would like first to back up historically here so far as how wet fly fishing was largely practised in the UK, before its use here in the US.
long rods were the name of the game, and casting a line as such was not a option. the long rod enabled for flies to be worked for the best part at close range all be it a 14ft or longer rod would allow for you to work at range.
By and large also there were two options for the fly fishers of the past, fishing the natural lakes and loughs, or the rivers and streams. Many of the fly fishers of the past fished only one of these options. There fore you had anglers that were experts at fishing lakes and others that fished rivers. In the case of wet fly fishing both options differ big time in so far as how the flies were fished, and to some extent the fly patterns that were used, also there would have been big differences related to geographical location, so what took place for the great Irish limestone lakes, differed from what took place for the Welsh lakes, the same issue also when rivers were fished, there was a great difference say between the English chalk streams and the freestone rivers of the North of England.

OK, that said, we then see very different ways of thought so far as what techniques and flies were the most productive, and indeed there is a great deal of logic here as in those bodies of water both food base and trout behaviour differed, trout in Lough Corrib are very different from those say in the river Test.

From my own point of view, and bear in mind l have a lifetime of experience fishing these waters, by far in the case of what l term as traditional wet fly fishing stillwaters, natural lakes containing wild fish are way more demanding of relative skill than any river l have ever fished, for many reasons way too long to go into here at this time.
Further more the choices of fly pattern used and the then presentation and techniques used to induce fish to take the fly are by way more demanding than wet fly fishing moving water systems.

Aaron fished this year with a friend of mine in Montana who is s good stillwater wet fly man, I can assure you that Aaron had his eyes opened to that he experienced there fishing with Simon.

OK, I will argue this one further. In the case of wet fly fishing moving water systems. The wet fly angler who is versed in fishing wet flies at all angles to the stream, knowing how to work the flies at depth and in and through the surface of the water will percentage wise overall in a fishing season catch more fish than a fisher that fishes by a across stream and strip back method.

Yes, l do prefer longer rods, for the simple reason that l cannot do same with a short rod, if l were casting across stream and stripping back, sure a 9ft rod would work, the long rod allows me every angle of versatility from up to down stream with either dry or sunk line techniques, which may also include sunk line up stream methods.

In the case of a dry line , l do prefer a lighter weight line 4/5, for many reasons, you cannot work the flies in the same way with heavy wt lines, the hang weight of the line hinders how you can animate the flies, which is a combination of rod, hand, and fly line movement.Also l will often use the elements of wind direction to work those flies, the difference say between a silk line and a wire.
I also want a fly line that is limp and moves, to be honest l would use silk lines if it were not for the aggro of taking care of them.

In the case of how wet flies fishing came into being here in the US, given all l have read on the subject matter there is a great difference between the evolution of the fly patterns used and how they were fished.
By and large it is also a species orientated issue.
I am not for one moment suggesting this is wrong, all l am trying to do here is to establish that there are historically great differences, which by and large still exist today.
Some of which do require years of experience and acquired skills.

There are of course many other differences from both sides of the Atlantic. Use Skues as a example so far as his perception of fishing nymphs as opposed to the Halford dry fly way.
Then we see here in the States, the use of indicators, and techniques developed for fishing very small flies, for which Vince Marinaro can take great credit. By and large such methods are not used for UK river systems.
Rivers there do not see the abundance of micro midge, we do see small mayfly such as caenis.

In consequence what we see here is this as a example. The UK wet fly fishers have a very long historical background of knowledge passed down from the past 200 years of fishing those techniques, while we see here the advance of techniques related to fishing small flies, which by and large the UK fly fishers do not practice and are not skilled at.

Fontanalis, that is a great tie, just how l would choose also to tie it.

At the end of the day regardless of how you choose to fish it is your personal choice, all be it l have never as yet meet a fly fisher who does not wish to increase his level of knowledge and skill to catch fish.
I am also of the belief that once a fly fisher has become very accomplished at many different skills he will often as not self impose how he chooses to fish, in many way l am myself in that way of thought.
It is no longer a issue of numbers or size, it is how l choose to catch them on any given day. Once the magic 10 lb Brown has been caught you will think very differently, by the way, the first 10lb plus Brown l caught was with a golden olive size 12 wet fly.


Tight lines guys

Davy

To add here, the Golden Olive was a fly from the Rogan stable.

The tying is if interested.

Tail. GP Tippet
Body. Golden Olive seal fur
Rib Gold oval
Wing. You can go two ways here. It is a bronze mallard wing the option is to add under the mallard some strands of GP tippet.
Hackle. Red game/Ginger.

The Brown was caught on Loch Corrib in the early 70s when fish were taking the emerging green drake, Danica Mayfly, from a boat fishing in the 4 fly traditional style drift technique.
On the same day l also nailed a bunch of with with a Connemara Black and a Claret and gold.

DW