Match the Hatch... Fact or Fiction?

Hey Duck Butt Chucker and Davy W, lets all chill out n get along. DBC is an enthusiastic and smart dude who likes to write and he should be able to do so w/o a bunch of crap from Someone w alot more experience than him. Conversely Davy W is an extremely experienced angler w many years and a few grey hairs and a few feathers in his hat. Soooo Davy has certainly earned the right to lecture a little bit on a subject that he has devoted his life to, and Duck Butt Chucker has certainly demonstrated a passion for the sport and an intellect that may perhaps come across as cocky to an old school guy like Davy... so davy chimes in, DBC gets offended and we got a good ol'fashion ciber spat. It sounds like both guys are playing their cultural roles very well: That is Davy as the experienced ol dog teaching the younger pup a few things, and DBC as the young energetic zealot who is not that far removed from his omnipotent teenage years and naturualy likes to to write and tell all about his discoveries in a world that is still exciting, fresh and new to him..... I bet that Davy was alot like DBC when he was a youngster, and I bet that DBC will be alot like Davy when he is older. Both dudes would be best buds if they met on a stream, but they meet here in ciber space so things are a little different. So, Here is what I propose to settle this matter: Davy and DBC meet at Church Pool on the farmington. Since neither angler is old enough to enter Church pool a one day moretorium on the 75 years of age requirement will be granted to both anglers. DBC will bring all ten of his flies, and Davy will bring all 40,000 hours of stream experience and they will have a Fip-Douche tournament. (my $ is on the trout). The winner of the contest will receive a full day of fishing w Marla and a night cap at the drive in theater, (happy ending optional).

And now onto more serious discussion... The Harvey "Slack Cast." Sweet skill for sure. I practiced it today and was def able to get nice dead drift w it. I may be wrong but I think it is when you pull back a bit on the line just as you are making a true presentation cast. by pulling back quickly w your retrieve hand you kill the energy and the line falls slack and lazy in a serpentine pattern which serves to absorb conflicting currents and protect the drift of the fly. totally works no doubt about it. great skill and gurantees a good few feet of dead drift. Glad that AJ reached into the closet and busted out that one. nothing beats old school tricks of the trade.

As for the reach cast. I like to land one false reach cast three or four feet shy of my target, then I add three feet of line to my true cast so that it falls exactly where it needs to be. so basically I land one false cast shy of the fish where it can't be detected, then I go for the true cast after feeding a bit more line. If the first cast gets no take then I do it again, again and again w/o false casts so the fly is drifting over and over target again, again, and again until the fish slips up and takes fly. awsome method as it doesn't spook fish and lands high volume reach casts w/out false casting. It is important to keep your line pinched and your motion the same each time so that the multiple casts are identical and eventually (usually within 4-5 casts) you get that perfect drift and take. When you get a little practice at it you will be able to land the fly exactly where it needs to be each time w a nice upstream belly cast after cast after cast. the high volume of casts is good as it maintains the anglers focus and increases the volume of potentially perfect casts exactly wher they need to be.

[quote author=sipper link=topic=3253.msg36740#msg36740 date=1281922712]
And now onto more serious discussion... The Harvey "Slack Cast." Sweet skill for sure. I practiced it today and was def able to get nice dead drift w it. I may be wrong but I think it is when you pull back a bit on the line just as you are making a true presentation cast. by pulling back quickly w your retrieve hand you kill the energy and the line falls slack and lazy in a serpentine pattern which serves to absorb conflicting currents and protect the drift of the fly. totally works no doubt about it. great skill and gurantees a good few feet of dead drift. Glad that AJ reached into the closet and busted out that one. nothing beats old school tricks of the trade.


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I don't understand the mechanics of what is described. Maybe it is just semantics like the difference between a pile and puddle cast I mention later in my post.

What I don't understand is the pulling back of the line at the presentation with killing the cast. It sounds like you are describing a line haul which adds energy to the cast

There is a "bounce" cast", in which the excess energy of a haul results in bouncing back the fly, leader and line back to you so that they fall in curves. It is a "recoil" cast from too much energy. I think that may be the slack line cast that is described.

There is also a slack line cast performed like a tuck cast except with a dry fly instead of a weighted nymph.

Rick Osthoff decribes the tuck with a haul to add energy and Sexy Loops describes the tuck with a pull back of the rod tip which does the same thing to add energy.

If you do that same maneuver with an air resistant dry fly and a George Harvey type of leader, the leader cannot completely flip over leader and fly to make it land first. The line will flip over and it will fall towards the water pulling the leader/tippet and fly after it. The end of the line with the trailing leader and fly fall in a pile. Jason Borger describes this in The Nature of Fly Casting as a "Pile" cast to distinguish it from a "Puddle" cast. So this "Pile" cast could be what you mean. Other's use the term pile and puddle interchangeably for an entirely different cast.

I'm just guessing about the dry fly casts that result in slack line from pulling with the line hand.

BTW, nice tip on measuring the reach cast.

Sipper,

I need to state that I don't doubt what what you do ends up with a slack line cast. I just need a bit more clarification.

The slack leader cast is almost the same as the tuck cast in nymphing. You don't actually pull back the line. Instead, it is a sudden stop on your forward cast. If you were fishing a nymph it would get sucked back under the fly line from the sudden stop and dive or "tuck" straight down into the water. When fishing dries you do the same thing except you follow through after the sudden stop. This creates slack in the leader.

hey SC, By quickly stopping the line in mid flight it kills the energy and the line just drops real lazy. It is good for dry fly casting when casting from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock, or vise versa. A good slack cast from directly down stream or directly up stream prevents the fly from being dragged or pushed by the line and leader in the current. I read about it many moons ago.
A.J. brought it up and it rang a bell w me bcuz I always just do reach casts, but yesterday and today i was getting better up and down stream presentations by employing slack cast. but... I may have the term or method confused because so many moons have passed since I read about it but I think that is called a "slack cast." its not a haul from the reel, its just a quick stoppage of the line by quickly jerking back a bit and letting the line drop lazy.

It is a perfect solution for when u are standing in water that is a little faster than the water that ur target is in. If you are casting straight upstream into slower water the serpentine shape of your line will straighten and thus allow your fly to drift down towards u without the negative influence of the faster water that you are standing in. All you need is 1-3 feet max of dead drift, and this acheives that. The "slack" line is dragged or pushed by the current instead of the fly.

it may be called a different name in different regions because thats the way language goes, but I think we're all on the same page.

Sipper:

Gotcha. Same cast different name. I'd call that a bounce cast. George Harvey describes a "slack leader" cast below.

http://www.flyfisherman.com/content/...leader-formula

Littlej81:

That's the cast I'd call a Pile or a Tuck with a dry fly. That's a great cast because unlike the puddle, the end of the fly line and leader hit the water first. In the puddle, with the upward trajectory and the drop of the fly rod, the line closest to the rod hits the water first. It's also much better in the wind than the puddle. The puddle is easier though and I used it until I got better with the pile.

Thanks to both of you. The same name for different casts gets confusing as does different names for the same cast.

Yes Silver Creek, U r correct. What you call a "bounce cast" Harvey calls a "Tug Cast." I call it a "slack cast" but thats because I are stupid. If I were to name it again I would call it a "Recoil Cast." Anyway good stuff. Nice Harvey link. I love the creative names of the casts. "Harvey Dump Cast" LOL. my buddies and I used to get such a kick out of the "bow cast"; pinching the fly or lure in hand and pulling back the rod tip and letting one fly. Good for tite quarters but totally goofy.

Another way to beat drag is to use the breeze or wind to your advantage. When I was a pup I used to bitch about the wind and whine and curse it out but know I think "wind is my friend, not my foe." if used properly the breeze can help get that nice upsteam belly. I think we prob all do this to an extent. The line lands first then the breeze blows the leader toward the target giving ya a nice belly with the fly leading the way. Or sometimes you can get a nice breeze at your back and casting is as easy as raising and lowering ur rod tip. try it, its a breeze!

Sipper,


Your mention of using the wind reminds me of one of the strangest fishing strategies called "blow" line fishing. It is designed to imitate insects such as damsel flies that move up and down over the water and occasionally get knocked down in the water by a gust of wind.

This behavior of the damsel fly is imitated by turning the fly line into a kite string with the leader as the tail of the kite. An air resistant piece of polypropylene yarn about as long as the fly rod is fashioned into the kite or blow line by whip finishing a loop into each end. One end of the loop goes to the fly line and the other to a piece of 2X-3X leader material with the fly tied on the end of the leader. You use the wind to hover the fly over the water and to intermittently dapple the fly on the water.

It is useful in western lakes that have a population of damsel flies and a prevailing wind. I've never seen anyone using it or used it myself, but then again I rarely fish lakes. It is one of those methods that I've read about that is hard to forget because it is so unusual a strategy.

Very interesting thread. I learned a lot.

LOL....I have always been skeptical when someone mentions a 100 fish day, but I actually had one, on the Beaverkill no less! I was using the kite technique (by accident). The wind was blowing very strong and there was a heavy caddis hatch (bright green / aka apple caddis). I tied on a bright green LaFountaine ESP and later a EH caddis (which skittered better because of the palmered hackle). I raised my rod to almost vertical and let the wind skitter my fly on the surface. I had fish strike on nearly every cast. Even if I missed them, they would keep striking until I hooked them. I've never had such a day since, but it does prove the method works.