Comparadun Help

[pmjasper]

Hey guys, well I have seemed to have made a major mistake and it's really biting me in the butt. I tied up a bunch of comparadun style flies opting to use bare thread for the body, instead of dubbed thread and parapost wing material for the wing as it seemed easier to use and cut to shape a nice wing. The flies came out looking pretty good but they don't float real well. Now it seem I must start over again. I started yesterday originally using 3 micro fibetts for the tail, thread for the body and elk hair and conparadun deer hair for the wing I'm having trouble in two areas:

First the tail section of the fly wants to sink, making the wing section have to support all the weight of the fly. I substituted a small amount of poly yarn material for the tail (Sparkledun fashion) which seemed to help but it doesn't look as finished as the micro fibetts. Secondly, I am having a hard time flairing the elk hair or deer hair out to the sides of the fly. I tie in the material as instructed and then tie it back upright but it seems the hairs want to stand upright instead of flair out.

None of this would bother me if the body of the fly rode flush with the surface of the water but it appears the tail will float, the body sinks just under the surface and the wing floats as well. Now I have also thought that using just thread for the body instead of the dubbing might be the problem but I can't see a major difference in using dubbed thread or plain thread. The problem with the micro fibetts might be that I was trying to be anatomically correct using two or three fibers for the tail, but it appears more may be needed. I'm just getting frustrated with tying to produce a fly that looks close to the natural and floats well. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

[alanb_ct]

I will reply in detail when I have more time. I think I can help you greatly.

[Fascist Killer]

Doesn't the Predator have a trick for this fly?

[Nymphmeister]

Except for the tiny sizes, I would use more than 2 Microfibetts- I typically use 2 on each side. Split them around a tiny ball of dubbing, and make sure they are splayed at least 90 degrees apart. Also make sure they don't cock downward or they will penetrate the surface film and not support the fly. Dubbing does help to float the fly, and will also soak up floatant better than the thread. After you tie the wing in and stand it up, you may need to use your fingers to force it to splay. Maybe you aren't using enough material in the wing? The more deer hair you use, the more it will tend to splay into a 180 degree arc. The wing on a Comparadun is an exaggerated "trigger", so don't be shy about using enough material to tie it. Hope this helps.

[rwilliarp]

Yea... without dubbing, getting that wing to stand up is going to be hard. I tie my wing in with the tips going forward and then the dubbed thread infront of the wing base acts as a dam which makes the wing stand upward. Then I use my thumbnail to get it into position. I found that good quality comparadun hair made all the difference. The brand I like is by hairline and is labeled comparadun hair. Also, I like 2 to 3 microfibbets per side of the outrigger tails.

[AaronJasper]

I agree... You need to really put a lot of turn with dubbing in front of that wing to get it to stand up. I really don't use deer hair much anymore but that is how to get it to stand up. Also, in hatches there are some good illustrations on how to do this.

[pmjasper]

Thanks guys. It's not that the wings won't stand up but rather I can't seem to get them to spread out evenly on the sides.

I cut the elk or deer hair off of the patch, put it in a hair stacker, bang the hell out of it on my desk and tie in the hair as per the illustration in Hatches II. My only thing seems to be that the successive wraps of thread in front the hair push the hair up and not really out to the side. Maybe it's just a matter of me placing some of the hair on either side of the hook shank before I tie it in. Also no matter how much i try to even out the hair in the stacker, there always seems to be some hairs that are slightly longer than the other. Probably doesn't matter too much but I'm alway shooting for the perfect looking fly.

Now, the reason I was using thread instead of dubbing is that I found some terrific shades of thread that seem to match dun bodies perfectly. I figured that the thread would be easier to work with and have that sleek dun look. I suggested before that maybe the dubbing holds the fly floatant better than the bare thread but i couldn't see it being that much different. It's too bad that just the para post wing material didn't work because that produced a nice looking dun pattern. Now, I'm just trying to see how I can tie some good, no-hackle patterns that float well.

[alanb_ct]

All the above comments are great. My comments on the Comparadun wing:
(1) I use Coastal Deer Hair in natural or bleached. You may also buy "compara hair" but the fibers are very short and hard to handle.
(2) Clean the underfur out of the hair bunch thoroughly. Use a tiny comb - it's a life saver.
(3) Stack the fibers in your stacker.
(4) Tie in so the tips extend over the eye of the hook. Height of wing - hook shank length
(5) Clip the butts closely and go down the fly towards the tail.
(6) Tie in the tail. You do not want to se poly yarn here, but rather Z-lon, Darlon or Antron.
(7) Dub a body up to the butt end of the wings.
( 8 ) Lift the wing bunch and split it halfway with the thead.
(9) Lift the remaining bunch and split that halfway.
(10) Lift the remaining bunch and build a sizable thread dam in front of it. It should stay vertical without any dubbing. You may need as many as 10 wraps of 8/0 thread.
(11) Whip finish.
(12) With the fly still in the vice, fan out the wing fibers so they cover a 120degree arc on top of fly. Looking at the hook eye from the front of the fly, you should see a gap on either side above the water level of 30degrees.

Dave Hughes' book covers this method in great detail.

Hope this is helpful.

[pmjasper]

Alan...all is understood except the splitting of the wing. Are you saying that the wing should be moved in an upright position in stages, aka. push some material up and wrap thread in front, push some more hair up and wrap thread again? Am I undersatnding this correctly? If so, it sounds similar to building up deer hair bass bugs.

[alanb_ct]

Tie in the whole bunch tip first. To properly lift and flare the wing, lift half the bunch by the tips and split it with thread. Then lift the next quarter of the bunch and split with thread. Then lift the remaining quarter and build a thread dam in front of that. This needs pictures, I'll see what I can do later. I'm away from my computer now. When you stack deer hair, you don't tap too hard. If it requires hard tapping, you need to clean the underfur out better-comb it out really well.

[alanb_ct]

Here are some pictures to help you. I used bright red thread and a big (size 12 2xl) hook to illustrate better. I tie flies left-handed. This is an effective style of fly, but if the wing gives you trouble, try using snowshoe hair patterns, they are easier to tie.

To make it easier, since the deer hair tends to roll, cover the front half of fly with thread.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0170.jpg

Comb out the underfur from a bunch of deer hair carefully and completely. Only experience can tell you how much deer is the right amount. For a size 14 fly, about two match sticks is right.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0171.jpg

Tie down the bunch tips first
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0172.jpg

Clip the butts and make a smooth taper
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0173.jpg

This begins the critical construction of the wing. Take one turn of thread through the wing (notice how half the bunch is now vertical)
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0174.jpg

Take another quarter and repeat the operation (notice how three quarters of the bunch is close to vertical now)
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0175.jpg

Build a sizeable thread dam in front of wing. This might take as many as 10 wraps if you use 8/0 tying thread. Make each wrap so it pushes against the wing.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0176.jpg

Use your fingers to fan out the fibers in an 120 degree cone.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0177.jpg

This is a side/top view
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u23/alanb_ct/comparadun/IMGP0178.jpg

[Nymphmeister]

Pmjasper-
If you are having trouble getting the hair to extend 180 around, all the way to the sides, you may not be using enough deer hair. Be generous when selecting the amount to tie in, and this MAY solve your problem. You can also use your fingers to "force" the hairs down on each side after you tie the fly.

[alanb_ct]

There is a way to tie this fly by letting the wing material spin around the shank to almost 180 degrees, but I find that method harder.

[rwilliarp]

Here is another alternative to the comparadun: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/120103fotw.php

[AaronJasper]

Alain, that came out pretty good. I used to tie a lot of them. However, since I found rabbit's feet I have stopped using deer hair. Do you tie many comparaduns?

[alanb_ct]

Thanks, if you are more careful, you can reduce the size of the tie-in hump. I did this one really quick for the exaggerated pictures.

I do tie a lot of these, "compara" anything is my favorite style of dry/emerger. I have had success with this style everywhere I have ever fished, especially in moderate to fast water. I like them too, because they are easy and fast to tie. I usually reserve a few rows in my dry fly box for this style.

[Fascist Killer]

Yeah that's what I thought aaron. You use snowshoe for the wing right?

[pmjasper]

Thanks guys. Sorry for the delay but I've been battling illness for a week or so now. I will try the tips suggested. However, I did feel the urge on Saturday to stop tying the trout flies and instead bang out a few saltwater flies. What a difference from size 18 to size 4/0. :)

[Gregorygob]

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[Gregorygob]

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